Posts by B_Deserter

12

If the universe is growing??.....

by ex-perfectdaughter in

i was wondering the other night....if the universe is growing how does this explain creation?

if god has finished creating how can an expanding universe be explained?

do the dubs have any comment on this?

B_Deserter

Here's a scary thought: In a few billion years, from earth it will appear that the Milky Way Galaxy is the only one in the universe. Other Galaxies will be too far away for their light to reach us, the cosmic background radiation will have dissipated, and the universe will appear as the medieval church taught.

96

Proof of God's existence

by Blackboo in

from a logical point....i notice that in these threads that there are few here who dont believe in god..but i hate to tell you your dead wrong for having such an ignorant belief like that..instead ya,ll are blaming religion, people, and your personal problems for your lack of faith in god..thats dead wrong.

the non-believers are not looking at the whole picture..just the present..the things that go on in the world happen for a reason and it doesnt mean god doesnt exist.

the bible says "the fool has said in his heart god doesnt exist".

B_Deserter

To sum up this thread: It is a logical fallacy to argue with a false presumption. In this case, the presumption is "the Bible is always right." The argument using it is: "The Bible says God exists. The Bible is always right. Therefore, God exists." Atheists do no believe the Bible is always right. It isn't ALL wrong either. That's why arguments about Archaeology confirming certain biblical elements is just shrugged off by most of us, because we keep in mind all the Archaeological finds that contradict the Bible as well.

96

Proof of God's existence

by Blackboo in

from a logical point....i notice that in these threads that there are few here who dont believe in god..but i hate to tell you your dead wrong for having such an ignorant belief like that..instead ya,ll are blaming religion, people, and your personal problems for your lack of faith in god..thats dead wrong.

the non-believers are not looking at the whole picture..just the present..the things that go on in the world happen for a reason and it doesnt mean god doesnt exist.

the bible says "the fool has said in his heart god doesnt exist".

B_Deserter

JCanon is actually a schitzophrenic male Diana Ross impersonator who believes he is Jesus because he spent the night in a dumpster. He is known as "Dave2002" at Jehovahswitnessesonline.com, constantly posting his strange Watchtower mythology. I really wish I were making this up. Most people don't take him seriously.

22

Earl Chester Rex, A Scientist quoted by the Watchtower

by VM44 in

*** w67 2/1 pp.

70-71 how god speaks to us today ***gods word is not out-of-date in this modern scientific world.

the facts show that it is sound.

B_Deserter

Actually, appeal to authority, when used correctly, is not fallacious. That's why expert witnesses in court cases have their credentials scrutinized.

In this case, however, the appeal to authority is not used correctly. His credentials in mathematics give him no expertise to speak authoritatively on evolution, which is squarely in the realm of biology. It's like having a brain surgeon testify about crime scene remains instead of a forensic anthropologist.

22

Earl Chester Rex, A Scientist quoted by the Watchtower

by VM44 in

*** w67 2/1 pp.

70-71 how god speaks to us today ***gods word is not out-of-date in this modern scientific world.

the facts show that it is sound.

B_Deserter

The thing about the WTS is that they try to use quotes from non-biologists to prove that there is scientific disagreement about evolution occurring. Astronomers like Robert Jastrow and Mathematicians are not qualified to speak authoritatively on matters of biology, just as a biologist is not qualified to speak in the same manner about Astronomy and Mathematics. Brooklyn is simply hoping that most people see a science-y title and automatically make the conclusion that this person is an expert on all scientific matters.

It is the equivalent of asking a fry cook his opinion on the local fire department record-keeping methods.

96

Proof of God's existence

by Blackboo in

from a logical point....i notice that in these threads that there are few here who dont believe in god..but i hate to tell you your dead wrong for having such an ignorant belief like that..instead ya,ll are blaming religion, people, and your personal problems for your lack of faith in god..thats dead wrong.

the non-believers are not looking at the whole picture..just the present..the things that go on in the world happen for a reason and it doesnt mean god doesnt exist.

the bible says "the fool has said in his heart god doesnt exist".

B_Deserter

I've found that those who claim to have "logical" proof of God actually use the most illogical line of thinking. Why does science HAVE to explain what WE define as "evil?" Animals kill each other all the time. Murder is a fact of life, nothing more. I suggest reading "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins for scientific answers to these questions.

I also cringe whenever I hear about so-called "gaps" in the fossil record. Do you realize how extremely unlikely it is for something to be fossilized? What we DO see in the fossil record confirms evolution, and no, there is NO debate in the scientific world that this happened (the only debates are HOW it happened). Since creationists already have their pre-defined conclusion, they will never be convinced that life came about by natural selection, no matter how many fossils we find. This is a logical fallacy. Do you need EVERY piece of a jigsaw puzzle assembled before you can know what the picture is? Creationism likes to hide in the gaps. It puts a burden of proof on science that would make the creation hypothesis crumble if it was scrutinized the same way.

Before arguing for creation, I suggest actually studying evolution. Most creationists don't understand it properly (eg "all came about by chance") and end up arguing against some bizarre imaginary caricature of evolution they dreamed up in their heads.

7

Part II of my story

by B_Deserter in

part 1 is located here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/138938/1.ashx.

i moved to a neighboring congregation and my whole life and view of the witnesses changed.

it was a huge step above lakeview.

B_Deserter

Part 1 is located here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/138938/1.ashx

I moved to a neighboring congregation and my whole life and view of the witnesses changed. It was a huge step above Lakeview. I even met my first crush there. Now that I was hanging around with my new group of friends, I lost touch with my old congregation. Jim got disfellowshipped. I actually found out about it before it happened in service from one of the more gossipy women in the hall. It was a shock and ruined my day. I was going to have my friend ripped away from me, and this woman mentioned it so flippantly and off-the-cuff I was almost angry. I went to his last meeting and Jim sat next to me. At the time, I was a "true believing JW," to borrow a phrase from the ex-mormons. My definition of the truth was very strict, very black-and-white. I was going to be a loyal soldier to Christ no matter what. Jim sat with me, and I thought it was wrong because I knew what was going to happen (it wasn't going to that night, but it would be the last time I'd get to talk to him). I think he wanted to say goodbye in his own way. Deep down, I'm glad he sat with me. He even e-mailed me about a job after it happened, and I responded firmly that we shouldn't talk, but thanked him for thinking of me. One day I looked up his number and had it ready to dial in my phone. I still haven't called him to this day. I don't know what I would say quite frankly.

The years went by and I adjusted. I progressed very much. I got baptized at 15, knowing for sure that this is what I'd want to do with my life. I regret that decision. It was really done to impress a girl in the congregation I had a huge crush on. Even though we'd constantly be told that baptism isn't something you do because your friends do it, that is pretty much why 90% of teenagers get baptized. Peer pressure is an amazing force. Regardless, I was deep into the religion at this point. I started auxiliary pioneering soon after, and then got approved to be a regular pioneer. This was the first year they lowered the monthly requirement from 90 to 70 hours per month. My first month I got 82 hours. After 5 months I was down to 2. There were only 3 other regular pioneers in my congregation, an old couple and a single sister in her 30s. Day after day, I'd be put into car groups with them, and it would wear on my patience. The couple was so judgemental, constantly gossiping about people, a trait that rubbed off on me, unfortunately. The single sister was an annoying yenta-type that was obsessed with other people's relationships.

I was living with my mother at the time, as she was split from my dad. She always told me that I'd never regret going out in service and to the meetings, that I'd always be glad that I went. When I came home from a long day with the gossip group, feeling absolutely drained and regretting that I went, I knew she was wrong. My seasonal job at a tax preparation place ended, as well as my ability to get lunch and contribute for gas. The elderly couple I went in service with would talk about people who didn't donate for gas like they were devil's minions. They'd also talk about how much of an insult getting only $1 for gas was, being that it was getting expensive. This made me feel even worse, so after 6 months of pioneering, I asked to be removed from the list. My hours were dwindling anyway, and I was so drained and miserable pioneering that it as a blessing. I never saw "the truth" the same way again.

I moved to the other side of the duplex with my cousin, and my meeting attendance started suffering. I felt incredibly guilty, which made it even harder to go. I switched to the other congregation in the same hall hoping for a fresh start, and when that died down, a hall 30 minutes away. Another girl I had developed a crush was going to this far-away hall since her family had moved. I convinced myself I wasn't following her, and this was for my spirituality. I rebounded for a while, but I again slumped off. I got laid off from my full-time job, and found another in the Detroit area. Once again, I ran away, hoping to solve my problems.

My new congregation was really nice, but I just didn't have it in me to be the witness I "should" have been. I slept quite a bit at the meetings, and then my attendance started dwindling. In the year and three months I lived there, I probably went in service twice. One of the elders that lived in my apartment complex told me I should find out if I have depression. I was entertaining thoughts of worthlessness and suicide constantly. I saw a doctor and started taking Lexapro. It worked, although a bit too much. I stopped caring about anything, meeting attendance, dishes, taking the garbage out. My once clean apartment became a typical bachelor pig-sty. I also gained a lot of weight. I went from 220 pounds to over 250 in a few months. I was switched to efexor, which made me convulse, after two pills I was done.

I had a friend in Traverse City, a popular vacation spot in northern michigan, that offered to let me live with him. I happily obliged, and moved. Again, I rebounded. My depression went away for a while, although I still kept my remaining lexapro for an emergency. My friend introduced me to his niece, who was my age. It was a "set up" from the beginning, and we soon started dating. To this day I get two different stories. According to her, she dated me due to pressure from her family, and according to her uncle, she was genuinely attracted to me. The whole family lies and backbites each other almost constantly, so I don't know who to believe. The distance put a strain on the relationship, and it was ended a week later. We dated off and on for a few years, completing the destruction of my self-confidence. It's like getting someone repeatedly addicted to heroine, forcing them to go through painful withdrawl over and over and over again. Now, her and I are good friends. She's married and we've both exorcised our demons on the whole issue.

My friend and roommate became more and more controlling. Suddenly he decided I was addicted to the internet, unplugged the modem cable from the outlet, and taped it with electrical tape. This annoyed me, considering that I was PAYING for the service. When he wasn't home, I removed the tape and plugged back in. The next day, the plug was ripped from the wire. It occurred to me that I was living with a psycho, and moved in with my parents the same day.

I lived with my parents for a while, got some odd retail jobs and finally a full-time job in my career field. While attending my first congregation, the doubts were planted one night while studying the Daniel Book. I couldn't logically accept the doctrine of "dual fulfillment." It seemed incredibly far-fetched, especially when the book presented no real evidence that certain prophecies had dual fulfillment while others didn't. The idea that there are/were MULTIPLE kings of the north and south was equally disconcerting. I just couldn't see the logic. I could no longer believe it. I saw the circular logic for the first time (this explanation isn't compatible with our pre-determined conclusion, so it must therefore mean THIS). I pushed these doubts back, but I never attended the meetings regularly again.

I moved into the apartment I'm living in now last year. Soon after, I started reading Richard Dawkins. After a while, it just started making sense. Back in June, I came to the realization that I don't believe in God. I felt terrible, alone, and frightened. I looked for support on the internet among people who have left. For a week I researched and researched. I saw things I'd never seen before and was forced to think about things I had dismissed in a new light. I first logged on to JWD and started a blog about my experience.

That Saturday, I told my mom that I don't believe anymore. She immediately attributed it to my depression. She had me over to the house (she has since returned to my dad) so my dad could try to convince me. I obliged. I was so stressed I couldn't prepare, and I sat in a chair the whole discussion, quietly nodding. I agreed to study more before I made my decision. That was 2 months ago.

I removed my blog and tried one last time to believe. I studied the publications, but I just couldn't bring myself to agree. I still have no friends outside the witnesses and this is why I haven't left for good. I've decided to tow the line until I get a good social group built up outside. Unfortunately, I'm terrible at making friends and this has been difficult. Now I'm moving in with my little brother, who has recently become more gung-ho about the witness lifestyle. I've passively agreed to this even though it isn't what I want. It's going to make my fade harder and make my life much more stressful. I feel helpless and alone. Leaving the Witnesses is many things, but easy is not one of them.

12

Who pays for new KHs?

by lavendar in

jw
friends

is it the members of that particular new kh who all chip in to pay for building materials?

or do the gb boys pay for them?

i know the jws all volunteer their time to build the khs, but who pays for all the building supplies?.

B_Deserter

The money that goes into one of the half-dozen contribution boxes in the back. Remember when there were one or two?

10

The Story of My First Congregation

by B_Deserter in

since we're all in the mood for story time here, i figured i'll tell y'all about the first congregation i ever attended: lakeview, mi.

i have changed all names in this story.

the parts of the story from before i was born i cannot confirm, since they were only related to me by people involved.. the lakeview elders are notorious for their unloving, introverted, intolerant spirit.

B_Deserter

Well it's actually my friend I was talking about. My friend is disfellowshipped but HIS mom talks to him and HIS mom talks to MY mom.

10

The Story of My First Congregation

by B_Deserter in

since we're all in the mood for story time here, i figured i'll tell y'all about the first congregation i ever attended: lakeview, mi.

i have changed all names in this story.

the parts of the story from before i was born i cannot confirm, since they were only related to me by people involved.. the lakeview elders are notorious for their unloving, introverted, intolerant spirit.

B_Deserter

Thanks Quandry, that means a lot.