Agnostic and Atheist are tricky terms because you can't really pin one definition on everyone. Most Atheists (not even Richard Dawkins) do not claim to 100% certainty that there is no God. Think about it this way. If I said that I have an invisible tiger, you probably wouldn't believe me. But, you couldn't prove to 100% certainty that there is no tiger, but you are 99.9999999% sure that there isn't one due to lack of evidence. Does that make you a tiger agnostic or atigerist? Atheism and Agnosticism are essentially two ways to say the same thing.
B_Deserter
JoinedPosts by B_Deserter
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Is agnostic different from athiest? How so?
by wanderlustguy ini know the answer, because i am agnostic.
it is strange to me that people assume if you say you are agnostic that it means you don't believe in god.
from wiki.... agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of god or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge.
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Favorite Uncyclopedia Articles
by Nosferatu init's promising to be a slow day at work today.
it would be great if you could post your favorite uncyclopeida articles to keep me entertained!
i'll start off:.
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B_Deserter
I wrote the article on cowbell. It was so god-awful before, I had to just scrap it and redo it the whole thing.
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fader's wife expresses 1st doubts....
by sweet pea intalking to a friend (ex-elder) today whose wife was (is) a close friend of mine .
she's still a jdub but won't talk to me now i'm df'd (apparently it hit her very hard when we left) and so she busied herself with ministry and meetings in search of comfort and affirmation of her faith.
this didn't work for her and she came out with an unexpected question... .
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B_Deserter
What else is out there? Whatever you want to make of it.
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Do You Have A Goal Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses???
by minimus innow that you're mentally out of the religion, do you have an expressed goal regarding the witnesses?
do you want to expose the religion for the fraud that it is (like i do)?.
do you want to set up a ministry devoted toward the destruction of everything watchtower?.
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B_Deserter
I believe that religious beliefs are something very personal and would never try to get JWs to leave the Hall. I firmly believe that that is a decision best left up to the person in question. Everyone is different. Plus, I don't think it's healthy to be overly-obsessed with how evil the Watchtower Society is, either. Sure, they're bad, but there are FAR worse groups out there. Spending a lot of time "speaking out" against JWs just means that you haven't moved on with your life. In a way, some of the exJW activists are still slaves to the Watchtower.
However, there is a difference between that and making information available to people that want to hear the whole story. I really thank those who have put up websites with information about the sex abuse cases, the NGO affair, and the bat-s**t insane stuff Rutherford used to write. But protesting KH's and Assemblies, going to the memorial to piss people off by eating the bread and drinking the wine, handing out fliers to dubs in broad daylight, is kind of....well.....loserish to me. It isn't going to do any good. They've already demonized you, and you won't make yourself easy to listen to by acting exactly how they said you would.
The best offense against JWs is to not mount an offense at all, they're prepared for it. If a JW challenges you on why you don't believe their doctrine, then they've opened the door for you to show them the logical twists and turns the Watchtower theology puts them through. It's been said many times on this board, but the best revenge is simple, to live well. -
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A Legal Precedent for Exceptions to the Shunning Policy
by Dead Man Joaquin innew blog post here: http://shunningmuststop.blogspot.com/.
please visit, bookmark, and forward the link to whoever you think might benefit.
questions, comments, criticism, etc.
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B_Deserter
I know of one guy who avoided being disfellowshipped even though he admittedly cheated on his wife. He threatened to sue the society because he was baptized before the age of 18. Since he was not old enough to engage in a legal contract, he concluded that his baptism was null and void, since he was not legally old enough to sign in a binding agreement.
The elders decided not to expel him from the congregation because they didn't want to bring the JW's dirty laundry into the public court system. -
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A COURSE IN MIRACLES~lesson #1
by V1710 ini've been reading posts on this forum for almost a month now and one of the observations i've made is that the organizations's brainwashing is still deep within the minds of many of the posters here.
feelings of guilt, hopelessness, fear are all residual effects of the mind control.
when i broke free i came across a course in miracles by viking press that helped clear my mind and lay the path for a life of happiness and meaning.
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B_Deserter
I've seen a "Course in Miracles" video and it looks so much like a cult I wondered if it was a parody.
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Help needed desperately !!!!!
by confused and lost inhi,i have just registered here because i need someone to talk to in a way that wont end me up before a jc.i have been reading a lot of stuff recently about the wts being false prophets and the like.i also hate the fact that there are so called "spiritual" men out there who abuse their positions to molest children.i have been a witness now for 20yrs but instead of feeling spiritually alive i feel totally and utterly confused.i do not know which way to turn.anyone out there who feels the same ?
share your thoughts with me ..please and help me unburden myself to someone.
thanks for reading.
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B_Deserter
Welcome to the forum. You're not alone! We all started our paths out because something just didn't feel right at the Kingdom Hall. All that spiritual "refreshment" we were supposed to be feeling wasn't there. We started seeing the ways the congregation was exactly how the publications described false religion. We started asking the questions the Watchtower tells people in other churches to ask, and critiquing the Kingdom Hall by the same standards the Watchtower tells people to critique their churches with. We wondered why we expected people to study with our church, but can't study with theirs.
The answers to those questions led us here. Feel free to ask any questions and we will use our resources to answer them as accurately as possible. Even if you decide not to leave the organization (many of us still haven't, even!), you're welcome here. -
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Something all faders should do...
by B_Deserter ini was thinking about the blood issue with witnesses and realized that if i were in an accident where i would need a transfusion and were unconscious, my family and the congregation would keep me from having one, possibly resulting in my death.
the whole point of fading is not letting anyone know your intentions and just walking away, so i think some serious legal counter to the hospital liaison committee is needed.. what i'm thinking is having a notarized legal document drawn up along these lines:.
statement of medical wishes when incapacitated.
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B_Deserter
I was thinking about the blood issue with witnesses and realized that if I were in an accident where I would need a transfusion and were unconscious, my family and the congregation would keep me from having one, possibly resulting in my death. The whole point of fading is not letting anyone know your intentions and just walking away, so I think some serious legal counter to the Hospital Liaison Committee is needed.
What I'm thinking is having a notarized legal document drawn up along these lines:
STATEMENT OF MEDICAL WISHES WHEN INCAPACITATED
In the event that I am incapacitated requiring medical attention; I, (full name), being of sound mind and body, affirm the following:
As a Jehovah's Witness, my beliefs required me to 'abstain from blood.' Therefore, I could not receive any blood transfusions, even to save my life. As of this date I no longer consider myself one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and I am now willing to accept any and all medical treatment deemed necessary by an attending physician, including blood transfusion.
There are some among the Jehovah's Witnesses who may not be aware or concerned about this stance, and may try legal means to block me from getting a blood transfusion or any other medical care forbidden by the religion. The motivation for this is from their belief that church doctrine supersedes all else, and some may believe they are following their conscience. This document is to serve as proof of my wishes and to negate any and all legal claims to the contrary. Any documents from earlier dates that conflict with this document are to be disregarded.
I'd finish it up with some personal stuff about my DNR wishes, etc.
After completion I think I'll get it notarized and send copies to my General Practitioner and a few non-witness relatives so they can counter any interference with my medical care by the HLC/HIS. -
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Check out this JW's blog...
by B_Deserter ini'll start with this statement.... i assure you, though, that if congregation elders were to pay me a visit and the entire dawkins-harris-hitchings trinity was lying on my coffee table, i would not be in trouble.
you are overplaying the "mind-control" card.. .
my first reaction is that he's lying.
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B_Deserter
Reading through this guy's blog makes me think he's set himself up as a grass-roots PR machine for the society. If he's telling the truth, then he's using his setup in an extraordinarily lenient congregation in order to give the public the impression that all congregations would accommodate his eccentricities. Notice in almost every one of his posts he's in the "we're not a cult" defense mode.
Now that I look it says he lives in Rochester, NY. I wonder if he's a relation to one of the higher-ups in Brooklyn. That would explain his apparent ability to openly read material that opposes doctrine with impunity. -
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Check out this JW's blog...
by B_Deserter ini'll start with this statement.... i assure you, though, that if congregation elders were to pay me a visit and the entire dawkins-harris-hitchings trinity was lying on my coffee table, i would not be in trouble.
you are overplaying the "mind-control" card.. .
my first reaction is that he's lying.
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B_Deserter
I'll start with this statement...
I assure you, though, that if congregation elders were to pay me a visit and the entire Dawkins-Harris-Hitchings trinity was lying on my coffee table, I would not be in trouble. You are overplaying the "mind-control" card.
My first reaction is that he's lying. My second thought is...man I wish I was in his hall! If the elders wouldn't say a thing about having atheist books then God know what else they won't care about!
Here's his website: http://carriertom.typepad.com/sheep_and_goats