Posts by Pallbearer

25

A Big Thanks to John Williams at Bethel

by mentallyfree31 in

jw
friends

about five years ago, john williams came to philadelphia, ms as a visiting bethel speaker for our special assembly day.

i was well acquainted with him, as he had been to my kh before as a special weekend speaker, and also to a neighboring congregation.

in his afernoon talk, he goes off about social network websites and he made this statement: "brothers, make no mistake about it, myspace is no place for christians".

Pallbearer

Surely he gave reasons. What were they?

18

Interested Person kills Bethelite in German Kingdom Hall, later is killed by train

by processor in

on saturday, 35 jehovah's witnesses gathered in their kingdom hall near frankfurt and sat over coffee and cake (for whatever reason, maybe pioneer school or some other event).

suddenly a 20-year-old man (according to most sources "not a jw yet, but wanted to become one"; though one source claims that he would have been an auxiliary pioneer) took a knife from the cake buffet and killed a 45-year-old bethelite (maybe a circuit overseer).. today the murderer was killed by a train - supposedly suicide.. .

http://www.thelocal.de/national/20101108-31031.html.

Pallbearer

People just don't stab another person to death without some sort of a reason. That reason, whatever it was, may or may not have been justified. How do we know but what it WAS justified? I'm not saying that killing is justified. I'm saying that the JW that was stabbed could have been in the wrong. Perhaps he displayed the high and mighty attitude that the brother I mentioned in the other thread expressed towards me. The brother was still fairly young, and he had "inherited" the responsibilities that came with being the Presiding Overseer, after the other brother had stepped down. Yes, the Watchtower Society merely passed the job on to the next most-qualified brother, thus making do with what they had to work with. What is so unfortunate about that is the fact that the brother was not really what you'd call a mature grown man, both because of his age and because he had little experience in such matters. The Watchtower Society used him because there was nobody else to do the job, and he had been showing a lot of progress.

Back in those days they were encouraging people to "go to where the need is greater," which in itself is quite telling. They appointed this brother to the position because of what was on his records - the things he was doing with regards to field service and being the Ministry School Overseer and giving the #1 talk in the School, as well as being a Book Study Conductor. The brother had demonstrated a *willingness*. They needed a new Presiding Overseer and he was the best that was available. And THAT is all it took for him to be appointed to the position. He was never screened to see if anyone had a complaint against him. Any blips in his personality remained unnoticed by those who appointed him. And yet if I had this to do all over again I'd have made sure to smack him with the words: "What do you mean, 'It's my turn next'"? and "What do you mean 'All we need is another nut'"? You see, there was a high and mighty attitude that he displayed that was never taken into consideration by those who appointed him (the Circuit Overseer recommended him and those in Brooklyn gave him the appointment). This individual clearly had an ego problem, and he may or may not have gotten over it to this day. I don't know, because I haven't been around him in decades.

So what I'm suggesting is, that if the person that was stabbed to death had a disposition comparable to what my acquaintance had then he very well might have enraged his killer and caused him to retaliate. If that's actually what happened then it was a high price to pay for having enjoyed such a high opinion of himself for a while. Maybe the Watchtower Society can learn something from this incident. Let's hope so. To this day I still harbor bad feelings towards no less than three individuals, all of which have displayed a high and mighty attitude towards me.

I think that this points to there being a major flaw in the fabric of the Watchtower Society. Namely, there are too many people who have been given authority who aren't qualified to handle it. There is the one scripture I remember having read that says something like "Some causes for stumbling are unpreventable." I guess that would be because elders are imperfect too, and as a result they might become guilty of causing someone to stumble. Perhaps that explains the failures of the individuals that I've mentioned in reference to my own experience. The Watchtower has had many opportunities to teach the elders how to deal with those they are supposed to be shepherding. If they faithfully did do so, it's then up to the elder's to learn and apply the information. So what went wrong in the situation that this thread is all about? Did the elder in Germany abuse his authority? In the mind of the killer the elder sure did something that was seriously wrong!

23

Requirements for Watch Tower Reader

by garlic81 in

does anyone know the requirements that should be met for someone to have this privilege?

i have been added to the list and don't feel i meet the requirements..

Pallbearer

Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. In my case I was doing all that I could do and more, but it was never enough for them. They thought they knew more about what I could handle that what I knew myself. After my activity had dropped down to next to nothing there was an assembly I attended where this same elder had a part on the program. Having run across him in the dining room afterwards I complimented him on the part he had and his reply was: "It's your turn next!" The poor fool! He obviously felt that it was such an injustice that he be assigned a part on the assembly while I just sat in the audience doing nothing. There was no way in the world that he could have known how much of a load that I was capable of carrying, or what I was having to endure at my place of work and how much of a drain that had on me. Some of them think they can read minds, ya know.

23

Requirements for Watch Tower Reader

by garlic81 in

does anyone know the requirements that should be met for someone to have this privilege?

i have been added to the list and don't feel i meet the requirements..

Pallbearer

The clear message is: "Either progress or get out. We have no room for procrastinators." (I'm speaking from experience, by the way.)

23

Requirements for Watch Tower Reader

by garlic81 in

does anyone know the requirements that should be met for someone to have this privilege?

i have been added to the list and don't feel i meet the requirements..

Pallbearer

Garlic said:
Does anyone know the requirements that should be met for someone to have this privilege [of being the Watchtower Reader]? I have been added to the list and don't feel I meet the requirements.
average service is 3-6 hours
never comment
only go to about 3/4 of the meetings

Sabastious answered:
It could be their way of asking you to "reach out."

You hit the nail right square on the head, Sabastious. Having kept an eye on Garlic for a long, long time now the Elders see you as a person that isn't progressing as you should be. In spite of all their admonition and reminders (trying to build a fire under you) they haven't gotten any reaction out of you. They know that unless they give you a push you'll remain stagnant. They see you as a person who is content to let them carry the burdens of keeping the meetings going, while you sit there idle and enjoy watching them work. They see an injustice in that. They see it as being comparable to you and them being hired to pick cotton out in the hot sun, and at the end of the day they are all tired and sweaty and have a load of cotton but you sat under the shade tree with nothing to show for it. And yet you get paid as much as they do, even though you didn't do any of the work. So they got screwed, ya see? Such an injustice! So what the real deal is, is that they have an unwritten policy that says: "Unless Pokey progresses along with the Congregation then Pokey will find himself on the outside, one way or another". Since it doesn't look to them like you will ever leave on your own, then the idea is to give you a push towards the "Exit" door. By literally forcing you to have a share in handling some responsibilities, and if your heart is not right (which they already suspect that it isn't) then they know that you will finally grow tired of the assignments -- doing what you didn't want to do in the first place -- and you'll quit on your own. Hence, you found yourself on the outside just as they predicted.

Did I hit the nail square on the head, boys and girls, or not?

385

NEW GENERATION DEFINED -- April 15, 2010 Watchtower

by Ultimate Reality in

from jw.org, here is the new definition of the generation from the april 15, 2010 watchtower.. .

article: holy spirits role in the outworking of jehovahs purpose.

13 third, holy spirit is at work in bringing bible.

Pallbearer

"The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near."

And there's your "bear" right there! The fact is that there has been no fulfillment of the sign that Jesus gave to his disciples, as described by him in Mathew 24:7. The Watchtower Society (WTS) has long believed (and at one time also had me believing) that the first world war fulfilled Jesus' words with reference to "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom". World War I certainly was NOT what Jesus had in mind. How do I know that?

To begin with, LIKE the WTS I am convinced that the war that will fulfill Jesus' prophecy is a war that will cause the "death-stroke" which Revelation 13 speaks about. I'm also convinced that it is the 7th head of the beast that is to be smitten with the death-stroke, just LIKE the WTS has concluded. But quite UNLIKE the WTS, I'm convinced that each and every one of the 10 horns are placed upon the beast's 7th head. Of course the WTS believes that the 10 horns are DISTRIBUTED amongst all of the 7 heads, rather than them being in a CLUSTER upon the 7th head. Yes, anyone familiar with what the WTS teaches knows that it is taught that the 7th head possesses 2 of the 10 horns, and that the WTS interprets them as being the United States and Great Britain. The WTS believes that World War I proved to be the "sword" that gave the 7th head its "death-stroke". And so the WTS says that the United States and Great Britain suffered that "death-stroke" as a result of World War I. However, that simply can NOT be true because those 2 nations came out on the winning side!

So it's back to the drawing board for the WTS. But how do I know that World War I was not what Jesus had in mind? It's because that war simply didn't produce the right results. World War I did NOT cause a "death-stroke"! No matter how a person might interpret the 7th head--whether it has 2 horns or all 10 of them--it simply didn't die as a result of World War I.

But as I mentioned previously, I'm sure that it's the 7th head that sports all 10 horns and it is this head that will be dealt a death-stroke. But where I differ with most is that I believe that the number 10 is not literally ten. I believe that the 10 horns represent the aggregate sum of all existing governments. That being the case, then a death-stroke upon the 7th head would mean that governments the world over will be brought to their knees as the result of the war that Jesus foretold. Yes, all the world's governments will collapse during that time. Obviously, that hasn't happened yet. And THAT is how I know that World War I was not what Jesus had in mind. And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. I shared these thoughts of mine with the Watchtower's Writing Department, quite a number of years ago as a matter of fact, but to no avail. Who knows, they might wake up yet one of these days.

60

A Sphere is Not a Circle

by AK - Jeff in

this thread was inspired by the poster here with that moniker.

that name, for the first time in my life, caused me to think deeply about the scriptural real meaning of the phrase used in isaiah, often used by biblical defenders to show it's inspiration by god.. i googled the phrase, and among other hits, found this little blogspace with comments that echoed my thought on the matter.. http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2008/12/what-you-really-think-a-sphere-is-a-circle-you-really-think-that/.

found it interesting.. jeff.

Pallbearer

.

mrsjones5 said: I felt we needed a visual

Whoa ... what a huge drumstick! They sho had sum awfly big chickuns bak in those daze, eh? Hay, this guy is one telgent-lookin spekiman, eh? LOL He defnutly ruminz me of me brudder-n-law, 'cept his legs ain't reversed like this hear guy's is. Any buddy else hear chek out those legs and toes like me did?

25

Sent anonymous letters to the society?

by Truthexplorer in

just wondered if many of you have sent any anonymous letter to the society expressing your view points and unhappiness with the way things are.. i am in the process of doing this, but wish to keep it personal and not show it on this forum as there is too much in the letter that might give me away.

the letter will be very sincere and honest.

it will be about 10 pages long and i will be sending copies to the governing body and to the writing department at brooklyn.

Pallbearer

Turthexplorer,

I have written letters to the Writing Department, but used my real name. I always mailed them with a "Return Receipt Requested" form attached, so that I would know that my mailpiece got there safely. I say go for it! The Writers need all the help they can get, and enough feedback is one way to cause them to think. I figure that they forwarded a copy of what I wrote to my local congregation, but I didn't let that bother me.

10

I have a question that I need your help with.

by Pallbearer in

hi folks,.

i have a real serious question that i hope you will be able to help me with.. in the 4-1-1986 watchtower, pages 30-31 it talks about "approved association".

what i'm seeking your opinion about is this: if a baptized jw is deemed to not be an 'approved associate' at some point (due to his having developed a divergent view regarding one or more of the watchtower's unique teachings) does his 'not being an approved associate' mean that the watchtower society no longer considers him to be a jw?

Pallbearer

VoidEater,

Thank you ever so much for your comments and especially your opinions.

You said:

-- I would say that if you don't believe what the WTS teaches, you are not a JW.
-- The WTS would not consider such a person a JW. Clean and simple, the article says that flat out. And really, the article is telling you to believe "or else". You should not consider yourself a JW if you don't swallow it hook, line and sinker.
-- The WTS would not view you as a JW. Whether they make that official is something else. It is sometimes easier to not press the issue, in the hopes you come around eventually, or if you have a degree of political power yourself, since it might upset others if they kick you out.

That's what I was really driving at. Thanks again!

10

I have a question that I need your help with.

by Pallbearer in

hi folks,.

i have a real serious question that i hope you will be able to help me with.. in the 4-1-1986 watchtower, pages 30-31 it talks about "approved association".

what i'm seeking your opinion about is this: if a baptized jw is deemed to not be an 'approved associate' at some point (due to his having developed a divergent view regarding one or more of the watchtower's unique teachings) does his 'not being an approved associate' mean that the watchtower society no longer considers him to be a jw?

Pallbearer

BluesBrother,

It seems that you have correctly understood what I am really getting at, and your comment was:

"Such a person may be d/f'd for apostasy....IF the cong elders decide to make a case out of it.
In my case I had some discussions perhaps 10 years ago with the elders of the cong we were then attached to. They ignored my divergent views and allowed me to fade away. I have heard of many on this board who have been d/f'd for saying such things to elders. It is within their mandate to do so if they chose to."

I had asked, "Does his 'not being an approved associate' mean that the Watchtower Society [itself] no longer considers him to be a JW?"

So what I understand you to be saying is that the elders themselves don't know the answer to this very question. Apparently the Watchtower Society hasn't ever said whether such a person should be viewed as still being a JW or not. Well now that really helps a lot! I suppose the elders are supposed to just use their own imaginations, and do as they please.

Thank you very much for your comments everyone. And if you have any additional thoughts please express them. BTW, where is Blondie at these days? I always look forward to what she has to say with regards to things like this.

P.S. ~ For some reason my computer is really slow when I'm typing up comments on this forum. Is it just my old operating system (Windows 98) or does it have something to do with this website? Anyone else experiencing the same problem?