To all:
Please read and comment on -
* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20313&site=3
Thanks
--
Focus
(Hypnotic Class)
i have always been into self-help, have several websites devoted to it ( http://www.empowerthespirit.com), and even wrote a book on it.. now i'm getting my board certified master of clinical hypnotherapy certification, and i'm excited!
i went to a hypnotherapist in the past, and found it helpful.
i started looking in to it last week and found an excellent place to get my certification, http://www.hypnosiseducation.com/.. now, you are not going to believe this!
To all:
Please read and comment on -
* http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=20313&site=3
Thanks
--
Focus
(Hypnotic Class)
now, i am not suggesting you should send this guy any $$ - just read the web page.... * http://www.energeticsolutions.com.au/jehovah_witness_watchtower.htm.
summary.
jehovah witnesses are controlled by six watchtower concepts.
Now, I am not suggesting you should send this guy any $$ - just read the web page...
* http://www.energeticsolutions.com.au/jehovah_witness_watchtower.htm
Summary
Jehovah Witnesses are controlled by six Watchtower concepts
Jehovah Witness children are being taught to dislike life
Most Jehovah Witnesses suffer depression
Jehovah Witness children are taught to be negative and fearful of people
By asking Jehovah Witnesses certain questions, you can "easily" observe the effect of hypnosis on their minds
Watchtower says ... NO!
I quote:
I began to investigate the Watchtower teachings after seeing a phenomenal number of Jehovah Witnesses attend my office with depression and fatigue related illnesses. One such client invited me to study with her and her colleague and when I did, I noticed they were "unknowingly" using a form of direct clinical hypnosis on me, the same as I have used to treat people for phobias. The only difference was, they were using it on me "to give me phobias about life outside the Watchtower movement" and also tried to use it on me for other issues such as blood transfusion.The Subjects covered in his book are:
Death within twelve months!
Unrealized by the public, Jehovah Witnesses go into homes to teach what they are told is Christianity and in some cases, within a time as short as only twelve months, these Jehovah Witnesses have caused death, as a direct result of those teachings. These deaths, permanently devastating the families of victims involved. [..]
Because of the depths of deceit and gross misrepresentation I personally see in Watchtowers teachings, it is my opinion they are the most underestimated destructive force [..] Aside from the ongoing deaths they cause, it is my opinion they deplete the mental potential of thousands of adults and children who attend, expecting to be taught Christian ethics but instead, are given a self-destructive attitude towards life and towards the efforts of personal development in life. The United Nations Religion Declaration requires, leaders of religion must be responsible and their teachings must not diminish mental capacity or cause difficulties to health. It is my opinion the Watchtower Society is violating this Declaration and it is time they were held accountable. After counselling many Jehovah Witnesses it is my opinion their mental capacity to answer certain questions has purposefully been suppressed through hypnosis. I have also observed the specific format of hypnosis used on them by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is identical to Freud's early clinical hypnosis.
As an experienced clinical hypnotist who studied the early principals [sic] of Charcot hypnosis introduced to America by Freud in 1908, I believe the chairman of the Jehovah Witness movement at that time, Joseph Rutherford, a student of psychology, applied Charcot's hypnosis to the format of the J.W. meetings in 1914 and this hypnosis format is being used to this day. The way "all" Jehovah Witness minds are blocked off from understanding specific simple sentences, is my proof.
This program also supplies evidence from medical journals and books written by medical professors and experts in psychology (P37) that confirms, the negative focus taught by Watchtower will encourage depression and depression related disease such as fatigue, epilepsy and cancer etc. I supply this evidence for the consideration of others and to protect the potential of our growing children.
My interest in this matter is purely for the welfare of our children. I am not promoting an alternative religion!
Jehovah Witnesses have had self-thinking skills removed by hypnosis. Pg7
Hypnotized people can be tested to prove hypnosis. Pg7-8
190 Christian doctrine scriptures that prove Watchtower is not
teaching Jehovah Witnesses from any Bible, even their own. Pg9
Watchtower have changed the word "Lord" to "Jehovah"
so many times, their Bible contradicts itself. Pg12
The Trinity is our Godly example for "Family" on earth. Pg16
Watchtower is eliminating Jesus and Family, not Easter and Christmas. Pg21
Changes made to the J.W. Bible to eliminate "Christ" from Christ-ianity. Pg22
Christianity teaches children "live joyfully" and "the truth is in Jesus". Pg25
Freud introduced hypnosis to America in 1914, the same time as
Joseph Rutherford, student of psychology introduced the
Watchtower study magazines that utilize hypnosis. Pg26
Coca-Cola was banned from using Freud's subliminal methods. Pg26
The Pokemon craze was started with the same
"four step business code" as the Jehovah Witness craze. Pg28
Compare the format of a Jehovah Witness meeting with
the format of a clinical hypnosis session. It's exactly the same! Pg30-36
J.W. related illnesses. (Watchtower teachings provoke health problems.) Pg36
Misleading quotes from the Watchtower blood-transfusion study book. Pg38
The fifteen blood scriptures. Pg39
An example of the doom and gloom they are teaching our children. Pg43
Banned by the French Government where hypnosis began. Pg44
--
Focus
(Relay Class)
the only experience i've had with 'apostates' was when i was 7 years old.
i was visiting family across the states and we went to a district assembly.
i remember a group of people outside with signs and billboards.
terafera wrote:
The only experience I've had with 'apostates' was when I was 7 years old.
No worry. We can soon change that.
By the way, the Watchtower's uses the term "apostate" to refer to anyone who opposes their filthy mind-control cult.
--
Focus
(Imminent Class)
as i saw it then and see it now, i leveled charges of inappropriate conduct against the elders at this congregation, yet, the elders seem to be the only ones the society was concerned with talking to.
i don't consider it a fair or unbiased investigation if you only talk to one side.. this was the only communication i received from the society on this matter.
not even a phone call.
DakotaRed wrote:
a form letter, readily printed.
Without a doubt.
One of many, many types of "form" letter.
If, in error, they had included your original with their reply, you would have seen scribbled upon it something like:
"send this f****r the Psalm 55 letter"
Try again and you'll get one of the Rev. 19 letters... watch out for those ones.
--
Focus
(Korah Class)
poor refugees..... the article says...... ....they [jw's] realise that the complete solution to the refugee problem lies with god's appointed king, jesus christ.
he certainly understands how easily hatred and violence can destroy people's lives......when that day dawns, nobody will ever need to become a refugee.
and everyone will have a place to call home.. yes the real solution to the refugee problem is armaggeddon when god's king, who knows all about hatred and violence, will destroy 99% of mankind.
ISP wrote:
the real solution to the refugee problem is Armaggeddon when God's king, who knows all about hatred and violence, will destroy 99% of mankind
! W H A C K !
! W H A C K !
! W H A C K !
Listen here, you shamefaced Watchtower apologist, you do not fool me one bit.
ISP, why so shamefully try to whitewash Jehoobah's carefully planned genocide?
Again we ask, what is the motive of these critics of the apostate cause? Are they encouraging wakefulness on the part of the anti- movement, or are they, rather, trying to justify themselves for falling back into sleepy inactivity? (1 Thessalonians 5:4-9) More importantly, what will you do if you hear such a whitewash?
So, the truly consecrated child of Christ class must ask: at whose table are you feeding, ISP?
--
Focus
(It is 99.9% Class)
my response to j. r. brown.
i am writing to follow up with information concerning j. r. browns response to comments i made to the media regarding watchtowers policy hurting children and protecting pedophiles.
in the course of the last year the jehovahs witness public information department headed by j. r. brown and local elders have repeatedly offered misinformation to the public.
Dear silentlambs
BRAVO!
--
Focus
(Anti-Liars Class)
what did the wts have against trains?
this book is insane..... i'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight-short-sighted-narrow minded hypocritics.
all i want is the truth just gimme some truth - john lennon
DIM wrote:
wow
i'll have to steal some more of Russell's booksThe one he wrote "posthumously" (through a spirit medium - or did they mean post-humorously?) is easily the best - The Finished Mystery, 1917, a publication copyrighted by the "PEOPLES PULPIT ASSOCIATION BROOKLYN, N.Y., U.S.A." - part of The Watchtower group of corporations - and published, promoted, sold and distributed by The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
But you won't find it down your KH library... Prominent Bethelite, that great friend of the Watchtower, proofread a scanned version and had it placed on the web.
If you cannot find a copy, ask < [email protected]> and I am reasonably confident he will send you tfim.zip
Enjoy!
--
Focus
(And Ye Shall Know The Shit They Publish! Class)
what did the wts have against trains?
this book is insane..... i'm sick and tired of hearing things from uptight-short-sighted-narrow minded hypocritics.
all i want is the truth just gimme some truth - john lennon
DIM wrote:
This book is insane
Sure. But The Divine Plan of the Ages (the first of his Six+One part set of books) is the most sane of Russell's major works. He got nuttier and "cockier" as he went on.
what did the WTS have against trains?You imply DPOA contains anti-train material. Are you trying to stumble your brothers? Where does it do this?
On the contrary, on pages 165-6, it says (emphases mine throughout from now on):
"If, then, we have proven that the mental capacity of today is not greater than that of past ages, but probably less, how shall we account for the increase of general knowledge, modern inventions, etc.? We trust we shall be able to show this reasonably and in harmony with Scripture. The inventions and discoveries which are now proving so valuable, and which are considered proof that this is the 'Brain Age,' are really very modern - nearly all having come within the past century, and among the most important are those of the last threescore years; for instance, the application of steam and electricity - in telegraphy, railroading and steamboating, and to the machinery of the various mechanical industries. If, then, these be evidences of increased brain power, the 'Brain Age' must be only beginning, and the logical deduction is that another century will witness every form of miracle as an everyday occurrence; and at the same ratio of increase, where would it eventuate?"
Approving, if anything. Granted that on pages 328-9 Russell opines:
"In the last few years there have been produced in vast quantities agricultural implements of every description which enable one man to accomplish as much as five could formerly. This has a two-fold effect: first, three times as many acres are worked, giving employment to three out of the five laborers, thus setting two adrift to compete for other labor; secondly, the three who remain can, by the use of the machinery, produce as great a crop as fifteen would have done without it. The same or greater changes are wrought in other departments by similar agencies; for instance, in iron and steel making. Its growth has been so enormous that the number of employees has greatly increased, notwithstanding the fact that machinery has enabled one man at present to accomplish about as much as twelve did formerly. One of the results will be that very shortly the capacity of these extensive works will more than meet the present enormous demands, and the demands, instead of continuing to increase, will probably decrease; for the world is fast being supplied with railroads beyond present needs, and the yearly repairs on these could probably be supplied by less than one-half the present number of establishments.
Thus we are brought in contact with the peculiar condition in which there is an over-production, causing idleness occasionally to both capital and labor, while at the same time some lack the employment which would enable them to procure necessities and luxuries and thus in a measure cure the over-production."
.. but note that history may have proved him right, for in much of the world, large parts of the railroad networks lie idle or have been shut down entirely. And on the next pages:
"It is proposed that railroads shall either be the property of the people, operated by their servants, government officials, or that legislation shall restrict their liberties, charges, etc., and compel their operation in such a manner as to serve the public better. As it is, railroads built during a period of inflated values, instead of curtailing their capital to conform to the general shrinkage of values experienced in every other department of trade, have multiplied their originally large capital stocks two or three times (commonly called watering their stocks), without real value being added. Thus it comes that great railroad systems are endeavoring to pay interest and dividends upon stocks and bonded debts which on an average are four times as great as these railroads would actually cost today new. As a consequence the public suffers. Farmers are charged heavily for freights, and sometimes find it profitable to burn their grain for fuel; and thus the cost of food to the people is greater without being to the farmer's advantage. It is proposed to remedy this matter, so that railroads shall pay to their stockholders about four per cent on their present actual value, and not four to eight per cent, on three or four times their present value, as many of them now do, by preventing competition through pooling arrangements.
We well know, says the artisan, that in the eyes of those who hold watered railroad stocks, and other stocks, this reduction of profits on their invested capital will seem terrible, and will come like drawing teeth, and that they will feel that their rights (?) to use their franchises granted by the people, to squeeze from them immense profits, based upon fictitious valuations, are being grievously outraged, and that they will resist it all they know how. But we feel that they should be thankful that the public is so lenient, and that they are not required to make restitution of millions of dollars already thus obtained. We feel that the time has come for the masses of the people to share more evenly the blessings of this day of blessings, and to do this it is necessary so to legislate that all greedy corporations fat with money and power derived from the public, shall be restrained, and compelled by law to serve the public at reasonable rates. In no other way can these blessings of Providence be secured to the masses. Hence, while great corporations, representing capital, are to a large extent a blessing and a benefit, we are seeing daily that they have passed the point of benefit and are becoming masters of the people, and if unchecked will soon reduce wage-workers to penury and slavery. Corporations, composed of numbers of people all more or less wealthy, are rapidly coming to occupy the same relation to the general public of America that the Lords of Great Britain and all Europe occupy toward the masses there, only that the corporations are more powerful."
I agree with Russell here, that natural monopolies like railways present regulatory and other problems, where stockholder interest and the greater public interest may collide...
Nothing here is anti-railways per se; it is the method of financing them and what collapse may result that Russell rails against!
Please, there is a great deal more nonsense in The Divine Plan of The Ages than this! If you want train-related nonsense from the Watchtower, I have mounds of it - another thread, perhaps.
A better question is what did ANY train-related information have to do with the divine plan of the ages at all..
The answer, my friends, is blowing in the wind... exactly like the Emperor's New Clothes...
--
Focus
("Job, after the Sabeans had made off with his oxen and asses, after a bolt of lightning had burned up his sheep, after the Chaldeans had stolen his camels and murdered his servants, after a whirlwind had blown down his house and killed all his children, after he was covered with boils from head to foot, after his wife had gone back on him, and after his three remaining friends tried to prove to him that he was a hypocrite, prayed that he might go to hell and stay there until God's wrath should be past, and that then God would remember him in resurrection. (Job 14:13-15.) Job records Elihu's prophetic statement that when the Messenger of the Covenant has returned, death will cease and men not need to go into the tomb. (Job 33:19-30.) Job also describes the steam engine - stationary, railway and marine. The following is a corrected translation of Job 40:15 to 41:34, with comments thereon from the pen of one of Pastor Russell's followers: 'Behold now one with great heat (the stationary steam engine), which I have made to be with thee; he will consume fodder (peat, wood, coal) as do cattle. Behold now his strength is in his loins (boiler plates), and his power is within the parts bent in a circle (boiler shell) of his belly. His tail (smoke stack-opposite the feeding end) will set upright like a cedar; the couplings of his leaping parts (connecting rods, pitmans) will be clamped together. His bones are tubes of copper; his solid bones (grate bars) are as hammered-out bars of iron. He is the greatest of the ways of power. He that made him (the Lord) can make His sword (Word) to approach unto (reveal) him. (Isa. 26:20, 21.) He shall rest under thin shelter.(steam jackets) within a covering of fibrous reeds (jute) and clay (mortar). The willows of the valley (the trees overhead) will enclose him around about. Behold (as a pumping engine) he will drink up an overflowing river without much exertion; he will cause the people to trust (that their cellars will keep dry), though a Jordan should rush forth over its border. He will gather it up in his fountains by means of traps and with a perforated nozzle. 'Thou wilt lengthen out leviathan (the locomotive) with a hook (automatic coupler) or with a snare (coupling-pin) which thou wilt cause his tongue (coupling-link) to drop down. Wilt thou not place a ring (piston) in his nostrils (cylinders) or pierce through his cheeks (piston-ends) with a staff (piston-rod)? Will be make repeated supplication unto thee (to get off the track)? Or will he utter soft tones unto thee (when he screeches with the whistle)? Will he make a covenant with thee, that thou mayest take him for a servant forever (without repairs)? Wilt thou play with him as with a bird (make him whistle at will)? Or wilt thou bind (enslave) him for thy maidens (so that you can take them to a picnic or convention)? Companies (of stockholders) will feast upon him (his earnings); they will share him among speculators. (Psa. 74:14.) Thou wilt fill his skin with pointed irons (bolts), and his head with a cabin of fishermen (a cab similar to the cabins on fishing vessels). Place thy hand upon him, be mindful of the conflict (raging within the boiler) and thou wilt add no further questions. Behold, his confidence (boiler) being deceived (not properly supplied with water), shall not at once his mighty form be spread asunder (by an explosion)? There is none so bold that he will stir him up (to run at his very highest possible speed), and none who will then place himself before him (to be run over). Who will compete with this one and endure (pass him on the track)? Under the whole heaven, none, unless (one like) himself. 'I will not pass in silence his members, nor the cause of his mighty forces, nor the beauty of his equipment. Who can strip off the facings of his jacket? Who can penetrate between the double lap of his shield (the overlapping sections of the boiler plates)? Who can force open the doors of his shield (the boiler ends)? The circuits of his teeth (rows or rivets) are formidable. His strength depends on courses of shields (sections of plates) closed up tightly with a seal (calked). They shall join one upon another so that a hiss of air (steam) shall not escape from between them. One to the other shall adhere. They will be welded together that they cannot be sundered. In his sneezing (when he puffs from the cylinders) light will shine, a flood of light prevading the mass of vapors: and his eyes (headlights) will be as the eyelashes of the morning (as rays of light from the rising sun). Out of his mouth (fire-door) will leap forth flaming torches, and (from the smoke stack) glowing sparks will slip themselves away. From his nostrils (cylinders) will issue forth vapor as from a boiling pot or caldron. His inhaling (forced draft) will vivify burning coals, and a flame will leap forth from his mouth. Within his neck abideth strength, and a desolation will dance with joy (become a prosperous community) at his presence. The separable parts of his body are connected together; all will be made fast upon him; nothing will be shaky. His heart will be indurated similar to a stone, and will be firm as a piece of the lower (rocks). When at his full speed the most courageous will fear (lest). from accidents. they lose themselves. When dryness exalteth him (or renders him furious), he will not have power to withhold; the curved vault (fire box) being caused to tear away, and also the armor. He will esteem iron as straw, and brass as rotted wood. The archer cannot make him flee; missiles (of war) will be turned unto him as chaff. The (strokes of a) hammer will be esteemed as chaff; he will rejoice at the poking of the fireman. Hewed (or notched) timbers of the craftsman (ties) are under him; he will spread an embankment (or trench) upon the mire. He will (as a marine engine) cause deep (places) to become as a boiling pot (about his propellers); he will make the sea to appear like boiling ointment. He will make a path to shine after him; one will think the deep to be growing gray. (Psa. 104:26; Isa. 27:1.) Upon the earth there is not his like- he that is (so) constructed that he can fear nothing. He can oversee (control by his work) all that which is great; he is indeed king over all conceptions of power.'" - The Finished Mystery pages 84-6 Class)
its all about lurkers: there are at least three main types of lurkers, 1. a jw with doubts, concerns, feeling that something is wrong with the religion, 2. an ex-jw who is caught between two worlds, and does not feel free yet to live a normal life, 3. a non-jw who is either involved with a jw, or a relative of a jw, or is in the middle of being studied with by the jws.. defining moments: everything we write, say, and do is observed by the lurkers.
in a single moment, or a series of collected comments, we will eventually cause a lurker to have a defining moment ... a point in time where they decide that being a jw is not for them anymore, or that they can stop living between two worlds, or cease studying, and not join the religion.
we may never know who we help, or how many.. flame wars and character attacks: when we get embroiled in these, whether we are the instigator or the brunt of the attacks ... what are we really doing?
Amazing wrote:
It’s All about Lurkers
Sadly, that is incorrect. Correct would be:
It SHOULD be all about Lurkers.
which is I am sure what you intended (Amazing often writes to intelligently guide, and as such speaks often of how things should be, providing information as to how to get there).
What "it" is about (as distinct from how it should be) is a mixture of giving an honest witness to lurkers, who are to be encouraged at every opportunity, and also about the feelings and emotions of individual board participants who are themselves in varying stages of recovery - or of denial that they need to recover.
In one way or another, and to a greater or lesser degree, the Watchtower's cunning plan ("Design-A-Mind-Control-Cult" by joining up the dots) has blighted the lives of almost every participant here (wolves - and idiots/trolls like Obves - excepted).
As I fundamentally and purposively agree with Amazing, it is moot why I ever spend my time responding to some of the more childish comments made in this (and in other) forums. Usually, I ignore them. When I do respond to fluff (as in recently), I take every opportunity whilst so doing to "render a good witness" by introducing some Watchtower-related tidbit into the answer. It is possible that some of the more braindead participants - or inexperienced lurkers - may even feel I am quoting the Watchtower approvingly... I feel that the best way to open the closed mind is to use the literature of the sect - in ways that the (often cunning) authors did not quite anticipate.
Many here are more concerned with getting dubbies off their doorstep - rather than inviting them in for a cup of java, as I and other members of the Honey Class would!
And now I move on to what Amazing did NOT say... but should have said.
Were this forum not to have occasional spats (sorry, "adjustments in viewpoint"), some lurker might conclude that certain things were stage-managed for the benefit of ensanering the unwary.. they would not know we would do no such thing! It might even lead them to wondering if Fredhall, You Know and their "kind" of venomous jW are something other than genuine, dyed-in-the-blood dub-dubs... they might even reason that we would have invented this Pyrrhic Class, if they did not actually exist. They might believe that some of the newbies who come in with a leading, and so revealing, question are other than wholly bona fide: a bit like many of the query-contributors to the Questions From Readers section of The Watchtower.
Think about it.
Just being real - ourselves - and celebrating our diversity (with anecdotes, zany stuff and quarrels too - with thought-provoking contents included), appears like a breath of fresh air to some dub lurkers - exactly the sort of dub lurker whom we have a reasonable prospect of gainfully informing. One has to the face the fact that with many dubs, it is simply economically non-viable to spend the time showing them that their entire life has been based on and wasted on a set of cunning lies and tricks.
Take the Prickly/Nnoderator Class photo argument now. It illustrates to the lurker WHY some apparently rational adult would be terrified that their family might know they were participating in these places! Sure, we understand why. But many lurkers may not - or may be aware of it, but never have projected themselves there.
A variety of methods work because there are a variety of people enmeshed in or involved with the Watchtower in a variety of ways...
Not to forget that the best work is keeping people out of the cult in the first place. Information [is] Class!
Enough said! I will return to my scrutiny of the "Older Sister Class" (as defined in http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19972&site=3 ) to make sure that they do not backslide in their work.
So should I apologize for my "Independent Thinking", which correctly identifies me as being from ""Satan""? We all know who told the first lie in the Bible, now didn't we? Check out Gen. 2:17 (then read Gen. 1:14 so you know a day means a day here)...
--
Focus
(A Battler for Hearts and Minds Class)
thanks l i s a for your helf...as a youngun i was disf.
2xs and on public reproof 3xs before 21 yrs...then 10 yrs ago i did it to myself dissassociated..lisa was never babtized so the babe does not count as far as the organizational rules and regulations are concerned..gossip had it in the glendale, ca.
congregation i linda kersey was forward and aggressive and oversexed before age 14 and i was still a virgin--age 15 then i made good the gossip mostly with the worldly dudes..got hitched to lisas pappy now decd and another story and chapter in my book the one i aint writ yet..got unhithched when sweet lisa was about 7 yrs old..have been celibate and single mumy since--22 yrs now..i sleep in a single bed alone--i made my bed now i must sleep in it..that is the way iy is folks..i told mine now tell yours!!!
The most scandalous JW* ever** is in fact the evil, barbaric, illogical, hateful, cunning, deceitful, spiteful, proud, vengeful, unforgiving, invisible, depraved, sexist, bestial, idiotic, unpredictable, genocidal mass-murderer Watchtower supreme cult-leader himself:
.
* Of course Jehovah-of-the-Watchtower is a JW, just as much as Osama bin Laden is one of Al-Qaeda even though he never joined it (he founded it). Also, "He" witnessed himself, and "His Name" serves as a witness. Additionally, see Judges 11:10, 1 Samuel 12:5.
** The argument that this abcess does not exist while true is irrelevant: the malevolent deity is REAL (or pretended real) ENOUGH to millions of brainwashed dubs, who then act, unwittingly in the case of the Sheep Class (and maliciously in the case of the Wolf Class) carrying out its foul family-destroying, hate-spreading agenda.
I apologize to those who understand the true nature of Watchtowerinanity for the mildness of my words. I would have expressed myself even more clearly, but did not wish to disturb the sensibilities of some here who do not, as yet, see things for what they are.
--
Focus
(The Filthy Dog-"God" of the Watchtower deserves only our CONTEMPT! Class)