fodeja

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Posts by fodeja

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  85

  AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

  nic'

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  fodeja

  Also terrorist need a base to operate from, you assertion that these people did not have a large support network shows you will only believe what supports your preconceived ideas, even if it is obviously wrong.

  Well, that's not obvious to small people like me. Care to elaborate without calling me stupid? You know, I wasted some two or three sentences to elaborate my point.

  Your appeasement will just result in more innocent Americans getting killed, for my evidence I give you WWII.

  I am obviously not in favour of "appeasement", and I stated specifically that this situation is VERY different from WWII. The enemy is VERY different from the enemy back then. From your statements, it seems that US intelligence is in the possession of maps with certain areas marked hic sunt dracones, and these areas are where the enemy sits. If it's so simple, I'm wondering why there has been so little success against that enemy so far.

  f.
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  85

  AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

  nic'

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  fodeja

  And I have seen nothing written by you are anyone else that makes me feel we should not eliminate those countries abilities to govern themselves.

  OK, how about this. Let's shove aside all those sissy "humanity" arguments for a second.

  1) The US transform, say, Afghanistan, into a parking lot. As suggested by some people here. Many people who are suspected to be in some connection with terrorists die. Many, many more innocents die.
  2) Anti-American hate flares up on a scale like you've never seen it before. While the governments of Arab countries do not express it, the people on the street are filled with hate.
  3) Some terrorists move to, say, Syria.
  4) The US wipe out the better part of Syria.
  5) Anti-American hate flares up on a scale like you've never seen it before. Even in America - many of Arab descent are likely to still have relatives in the Middle East.
  6) Some terrorists move to, say, Sudan.
  7) The US wipe out the better part of Sudan.
  8) Anti-American hate flares up on a scale like you've never seen it before.
  9) Some terrorists move to, say, Germany.
  10) The US wipe...oops, that's one of our NATO allies!

  (Okay, forget 9 and 10). Anyway, what's left? Devastated, destabilised countries. More hate than ever before - and this time, understandable hate.

  As opposed to many commentators, I don't think that the attack on Tuesday needed such a huge support network (everyone keeps talking about a sophisticated "logistics" network - for what? These guys didn't even need tons of TNT!). It required a relatively small group of very determined fanatics, money, and a plan. These three things are available in relative abundance, travel easily and are hard to catch. They are impossible to nuke out of existence.

  These people are not operating like the Wehrmacht, they are modernised guerillas, and all the Napalm you could drop won't eliminate them completely. As you said, learn from history.

  Respond to my arguments not you own prejudice.

  Your list contains assertions, not arguments.

  ...but I assure you with the aid of a map we can find the countries that have given him safe haven.

  *LOL* Sorry, I couldn't help laughing. Yes, I think it's time that some people use a map. There seems to be much confusion of Palestine, Afghanistan and whatever else is considered Middle East (hint: it's not the pendant of Midwest).

  ..feel we should not eliminate those countries abilities to govern themselves.

  Who else should govern these countries? Who else, jelly? America?

  f.

  p.s.: BTW jelly, you know that mike wasn't quoting you, he was trying to show something. The same thing that I've been trying to tell you.
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  14

  Light candles in the windows tonight

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  light candles in the windows tonight to show that we feel with .

  america and the tragedy that have hit them.

  light it for all the .

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  fodeja

  PS: Driving with your headlights on is another way to show your support of the victims!

  That's compulsory in Scandinavia :-)

  f., who thinks that symbolic gestures are worth more than it may seem
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  14

  Light candles in the windows tonight

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  light candles in the windows tonight to show that we feel with .

  america and the tragedy that have hit them.

  light it for all the .

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  fodeja

  There was a nationwide minute of silence at 10:00 here. Public buildings are carrying black flags, people have been placing flowers in front of the US embassy since the day it happened.
  Good to see that 'the world' is drawing closer together. If there's anything positive to find in these events, it may be that.

  f.
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  48

  Something DIED in me on Tuesday

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i appreciate the words of another poster who commented that he felt it unwise to post in anger.

  i have tried to hold calm and keep my anger in check, but that started to change with my nato posting yesterday.. i am set back over 30 years: i was raised to respect all races, and not to be prejudiced.

  i was also raised a proud american, and that it was important not to tolerate bullies.

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  fodeja

  Tell me different I challenge you.

  WTF does *this* have to do with the question of a "proper response" to the attacks?! Where is the analogy to anything anyone here has written on this topic? This has to be one of the best examples of a false analogy that I've seen in a while.

  My gosh.
  f., who doesn't give a damn about whether he's dying next to a coward or a hero
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  48

  Something DIED in me on Tuesday

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i appreciate the words of another poster who commented that he felt it unwise to post in anger.

  i have tried to hold calm and keep my anger in check, but that started to change with my nato posting yesterday.. i am set back over 30 years: i was raised to respect all races, and not to be prejudiced.

  i was also raised a proud american, and that it was important not to tolerate bullies.

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  fodeja

  from "The Enemy Maker" by Sam Keen, an essay in Meeting the Shadow

  Ginny, just a minute ago, I took exactly this book from my shelf. The concept of the "shadow" seemed to be so very appropriate in the current situation.

  Thanks for an excellent response. I'd like to take the opportunity to say that I've enjoyed all of your postings that I've read so far, very much.

  f.
• 
  48

  Something DIED in me on Tuesday

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i appreciate the words of another poster who commented that he felt it unwise to post in anger.

  i have tried to hold calm and keep my anger in check, but that started to change with my nato posting yesterday.. i am set back over 30 years: i was raised to respect all races, and not to be prejudiced.

  i was also raised a proud american, and that it was important not to tolerate bullies.

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  fodeja

  If they are not nuked this will continue. They are not attacking military operations, but sites where the most innocent citizins will likely be. So they have innocent citizins. So be it. Nuke them and take the flack.

  See my answer in the Adult forum, unless you are one of those pacifist pussies who can't take a little violence. You know, those bleeding-hearts dreamers who still don't understand that we must respond with full force to end all this horrible violence.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11730&site=3

  f.

  edited (pictures removed to new thread in "adult" section)
• 
  85

  AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

  nic'

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  fodeja

  Another thing the Nazis did was to silence people that disagreed with them by violence, threats, and RIDICULE. Read our threads and decide for yourself who has ?Nazi? like behavior.

  Using the "logic" you are suggesting here, I would say that Farkel is showing Nazi like behaviour. He's using ridicule quite a lot. So are, just off the top of my head, Naeblis or Kent or JanH.

  Seriously, I'm not accusing anyone of being a Nazi. I'm saying that the statements I'm reading here remind me very much of the fanatic, blood-thirsty rhetoric that was used by people back then (I know it: I've been studying it). Words like "total war" have a very distinct connotation for anyone who's been living in Europe in the past decades. As Lisa reminds us: watch your language. That's my point.

  You have not responded to my assertion that to allow atrocities to occur and not do ever thing in you power to stop them, while hiding under the guise of pacifism, is cowardice, dishonest, immature, and ignorant.

  You have not responded to my assertion that giving a fuck about the life of innocent civilians for "the greater good" is exactly how terrorists think. This is still my main criticism: that you, and other people, have adopted a way of thinking that is usually attributed to the people we all despise so much. You talk about not tolerating the ways of these people, not letting them intimidate you, and yet you are suddenly talking the way they talk.

  Jelly, to make it clear: I'm *not' a pacifist in the usual sense of the word. I don't like violence, but I understand it is sometimes necessary. For instance, I believe that the Allies' response to Hitler was very necessary. I'm very, very glad about the result. But I don't believe that this justifies everything they did. Absolutely not.

  Just as COMF, my opinion is that the wrong people shouldn't be killed. And that this is not the time to throw all ethics overboard without hesitation. And that it's not the time to give up the good tradition of thinking before acting.

  I notice that you offer no solutions just criticisms.

  Correct. I don't even pretend to.

  f.

  edited (formatting)
• 
  85

  AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

  nic'

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  fodeja

  Reference to Nazism, cute and completely invalid.

  Neither cute(!?) nor invalid. I see exactly the same type of emotions coming up.

  My hart does ache for what must happen but I am adult and strong enough to realize this war in inevitable.

  All right, have your way. But then, Mr. Armchair General, do the killing yourself. Enlist, get training, kill. Don't call for "action" and "responses" and all that, do it. That's the honest way.

  As for sidestepping arguments, you didn't answer my question how you can come up with such a life-and-death decision after a mere 2 days of watching TV news. Apparently, all it takes to have a "very good clue" is to watch Special Reports on CNN.

  f., who's grown weary of people claiming to be "realists"
• 
  85

  AMERICA'S REVENGE HAS STARTED!

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reports are coming in (bbc) of tracer fire and explosions in kabul, afghanistan.. this is of course wher osama bin laden is holed up - have the fbi/cia managed to successfully pin this atrocity on him already?.

  nic'

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  fodeja

  I. we must fight a total war

  Against who? "The middle east"? "The countries"? What makes up a country? Who, exactly, is the enemy?

  I'm beginning to wonder what the response would be now if GWB yelled to a packed audience: "Wollt ihr den totalen Krieg?"

  II. limited strikes are ineffective and actually make the situation worse ? hence morally bankrupt

  All-out wars like the one against Iraq did not have significantly more effect. They had more victims, though. If your idea of total war is to nuke the entire area, then I don't consider that a "point".

  III. World War II is a prime example of the time when appeasement causes more harm than good

  World War II was also an example of unbelievable atrocities committed for no reasons at all, on all sides. World War II cost the lives of millions and millions of people. That's also pretty much the definition of "total war", IMO. Do you really want that?

  (clarification: I don't argue "against WWII" - I argue against the idea that total war is the only way to go now)

  V. Our way of life is threatened and the only way to maintain it is to inact this war

  Is it really? This sounds like the thinking of a desparate, suicidal person. Only one way out.

  VI. I hate this solution, however it is the only honest and realistic solution available

  Is it? Do you really think you have a complete picture of the situation, after two days, from the media, to reach such a conclusion involving the killing of many innocent persons? It takes weeks and careful deliberation in the courtroom to find just one single person guilty. For you, all it takes is a couple of video clips to sentence hundreds, thousands of people you've never seen to death.

  To me, it doesn't matter whether you claim to hate this or not, statements like "We cannot be concerned about the other side's civilian population" make me sick. You don't even have a fucking clue who "the other side" is.

  I could be offended that you compared me with the terrorist but I choose not to.

  Fine. And I choose to stand by my words. People start to think like terrorists. I'm even more scared by that than by the terrorists themselves, and that's a lot.

  I can't even begin to imagine how scared many people down in the evil "Middle East" are now.

  f.