before i begin my introductory post, i would like to mention that a number of my initial comments here may be viewed by several of you as watchtower apologist or as sympathetic to the views of the jehovahs witnesses.
the last thing i want to do is incite a flame war regarding my legitimacy or intentions in joining this forum.
mostly, i would describe myself as on the fence.
Welcome and thank you for an excellent first post! I will echo what several of the previous posters have said and encourage you to finish "Crisis of Conscience". I would also recommend you read "In Search of Christian Freedom", Ray Franz's follow up book. I would very much look forward to hearing your thoughts on things after completing your readings.
Keep on posting!
TYA
this clip is one of many cartoon spoofs of life in jw world.
this particular one is a cartoon play on the wt study.
one of my favorite parts is where the man is flipping pages in the bible, trying to find the scripture being read, and when he finds it, the person is already done reading it (which always used to happen)!
Sure looks like what I remember!
at this very moment one year ago today my dh and i were in an "interview" with 2 elders in regards to a night out in late november 2009. that "interview" turned into my judicial committee with a 3rd elder who just happened to be at the hall that night........because of admitting to having been drunk on occassion over the years with the most recent being 2 years prior.
the "interview/impromtu judicial committee lasted almost 3 hours as they tried to convince me that i had stabbed jah and asked what i was going to do to correct my drinking habits.
i am not a huge drinker......just like to drink socially with friends once in a while.
Hi confuzzled...pardon my being dense, but what does DH stand for? Sounds rather strange that they would DF you over something that wasn't a "habit"...especially something that happened 2 years prior! Did you show repentance in your JC? Have you tried to get reinstated? Personally, being DF'ed worked out for me...hopefully, you can get past the feelings and start to live your life with happiness.
people who leave the wts have to decide what to do with jesus and the bible.. for an interesting read defending the bible's accounts of jesus from an evangelical perspective, i recommend lee strobel's 1998 book the case for christ.. strobel is a former atheist who used to be a journalist for the chicago tribune.. he later become a protestant pastor.. no, i don't get any money from sales of the book; in fact, you can probably get a copy free through your local library system.. in order to help you decide whether or not you'd be interested in this book, here are the titles of the chapters:.
part 1: examining the record.
chapter 1: the eyewitness evidence: can the biographies of jesus be trusted?.
Thanks Eric...I had not heard of the book by Price. I will check it out.
people who leave the wts have to decide what to do with jesus and the bible.. for an interesting read defending the bible's accounts of jesus from an evangelical perspective, i recommend lee strobel's 1998 book the case for christ.. strobel is a former atheist who used to be a journalist for the chicago tribune.. he later become a protestant pastor.. no, i don't get any money from sales of the book; in fact, you can probably get a copy free through your local library system.. in order to help you decide whether or not you'd be interested in this book, here are the titles of the chapters:.
part 1: examining the record.
chapter 1: the eyewitness evidence: can the biographies of jesus be trusted?.
Just curious...have you read the book peacefulpete?
people here have a fundamentally different opinion of what identifies a religion as true or false.
most people leave christendom's churches because their prayers go unanswered and there's no evidence that god intervenes in their personal lives.
something that's never discussed here.
To paraphrase a well known response to that question, "sometimes the answer is no!"
i was wondering what a jw could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving jehovah.
" the person could ask, "so what if i don't serve jehovah?
" if i understand jw belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist.
Designs,
You make some very interesting points regarding Jewish thinking...
My point was to go back to the original question in this thread which is addressed to JW's. My conclusion is that from the JW point of view, there really is no alternative to rejecting God other than eternal death...so Interestedone's question is not answerable by a JW. The other viewpoints, yours or Perry's, would be rejected by a JW.
TYA
it seems to me that the kh's in many areas have lost the critical mass they need to stay healthy and to expand.
loss of their youth and loss of ministerial servants makes it obvious that these khs are doomed.
maybe not this year, but before this decade is out we will see many closings and subsequent mergers of kh's to the point that it is obvious to jws that they have become a has-been religion.
There might have to be a return to the old system of three overseers...a congregation servant, an assistant and a school overseer...that should stem some of the hemorrhaging of manpower and centralize control.
i was wondering what a jw could say to a person who doesn't care about "serving jehovah.
" the person could ask, "so what if i don't serve jehovah?
" if i understand jw belief correctly, they will say, "then you'll cease to exist.
I may be missing something here, but I think Interestedone was referring to the JW take on eternal judgement, which is once you are dead you are dead for good...no paradise for you!
Perry is coming from the point of view of the Christian belief of an eternity that can be either an eternity in heaven or an eternity in hell...either way, it is a conscious experience and not one of "here today, gone tomorrow".
To argue for Perry's side would make no sense to someone indoctrinated in the JW world view of eternity. JW's do not believe in an immortal soul. If we look at death through the JW view, as Interestedone points out, then we really would have nothing to fear at judgement except staying dead.
Perry's argument makes much more sense from the Christian viewpoint, since eternity is a conscious, living thing...eternal reward or eternal separation from God.
awake 1973 3/22 p.12 "...the spirit of competion between players can lead to unplesant circumstances...most families manage to keep the conflicts that arise in games to the chess board.
but in some homes tensions linger long after checkmate.
chess has been a game of war since it originated...a play substitute for the art of war....a danger of stirring up competition with one another even developing hostility towards another, something the bible warns christians to avoid doing...what effect does chess have upon one?
Hmmm...I am trying to remember the last time I read about a chess related drive-by shooting!
