My copy of the NWT says the bowl was 10 cubits from rim to rim, and 30 cubits all around.
Francois
JoinedPosts by Francois
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55
Biblical Inerrancy
by Francois inis there any denial that at 1 kings 7:23, the value of pi is ascertained as 3.000?.
and where does this leave the idea that the bible is inspired in every word, jot, and tittle by god?
just wondering.. any takers?.
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Seek Jehovah or His Organisation?
by ozziepost intoday's watchtower study (feb 15, p17) seeks to reassure jws that jehovah will take action against all opposers to the wtbts.. it states: "unscrupulous men slander jehovah's witnesses, branding them a 'dangerous cult'.
god is aware of their actions-and these will not go unpunished.
"(para 11).
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Francois
S
"You woudl have abattle with an unarmed man or group........
shame on you...be kind to those less fortuante than you....."
???
What do you mean?
Of course they want to count their money. But you don't have to promulgate a system of beliefs that destroy families, and kills people in order for you to run your little scam.
And of course they don't want to debate. Me nor anyone else. They know they would loose their ass in an open debate.
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Channel of Communication?
by Francois inwe are told that the governing body is the group through which god speaks to the human race.
we have also been told by that governing body that mysticism is of the devil.
it's evilwickedmeanbadandnasty.. so exactly how, then, does the gb get this information from god?.
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Francois
I'm sorry, but if what appears in the WT is to be understood as the word of God, then there has to be a mechanism by which that word is translated to the GB. What is it?
And if no claim is made as to a special connection with that mechanism, then it's open to any and all. If that's the case, why would we need the governing body to tell us what the spirit said, since we'd already know?
If there is a claim as to uniqueness, which there is, then what is the mechanism of that communication? The scriptures pointedly say that the spirit was to be poured out upon "all flesh."
Communication need not be two-way. Communication can be defined as an act of transmitting. But if it's two way, then what is the mechanism? Hell, if it's one way, what is the mechanism?
And if the spirit is "guiding" the GB, what is the mechanism? Do they sit around and burn candles and chant? Do they sacrifice virgins?
Do they cut a goat? Does what is to be printed in the WT come across in automatic speaking, automatic writing, automatic typing, automatic hearing, or any other function of the marginal consciousness? What is that function? No watery answers are going to do here, I'm afraid.The GB claims it is the only channel of communication God is using. What is the mechanism of that channel that's open to them and not to me? What is the freaking mechanism of that leading that tells the GB what goes in the WT?
Not that I don't already know. THERE ISN'T ONE. Those old bastards on the GB have no more idea of the mind of God than they know how to fly to the damn moon. I challenge them to produce any evidence of such a communication channel. The only evidence they've ever produced in over a hundred years is that they preside over a false religion with false prophecies.
Francoise
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BS Vacuum
by hippikon inwhy do so many substitute one type of bs for another.
as if there is a bullshit vacuum in the universe or something.
im referring to those that leave the jws and join or start something even more wacky.
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Francois
Why do people leave one borg only to join another? It is because of the type of person who will willingly get involved in a borg in the first place.
Yes, there is a definite personality type that joins up. And you can study about that personality type, perhaps about yourself, by picking up a copy of Eric Hoffer's concise little book, "The True Believer."
You can discover all you want to know about a borg, and who joins a borg in this slim little tome.
Enjoy.
Francoise.
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Seek Jehovah or His Organisation?
by ozziepost intoday's watchtower study (feb 15, p17) seeks to reassure jws that jehovah will take action against all opposers to the wtbts.. it states: "unscrupulous men slander jehovah's witnesses, branding them a 'dangerous cult'.
god is aware of their actions-and these will not go unpunished.
"(para 11).
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Francois
Well, there certainly is a lot of difference between the two following statements: 1) This means everlasting life, taking in knowledge [about God]...; and 2) This means everlasting life, knowing God...
Knowing someone is quite different from knowing ABOUT them. And here is just where JWs and the WTB&TS miss the point. Deliberately. If you can know God as a direct phenomena, why do you need even one other person, much less an entire organization, to know him?
This point is further clarified, as is the WTB&TS evil motivation, in the following mistranslation, also deliberate: "The kingdom of heaven is in your midst..." vs. "The kingdom of heaven is within you..."
If the kingdom of heaven is within you, then it is within your direct, unaided grasp to know this "kingdom" as a direct spiritual experience. Of course, the WTB&TS does not want you to have this understanding, because if God can be directly known, of what use is their damnable organization? Thus, they have deliberately mis-translated this (and many other) scriptures. God does indeed know of this, and I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of any of the governing body, nor of their accomplices when they are called on to answer for the load they place on their followers, the weight of which they are unwilling to even budge with the tips of their fingers.
As for the question as to whether the WTB&TS is a cult: If it walks, looks, quacks, and swims like a duck...well, you know. Let's look at the definition of what constitutes a cult and see if the JWs meet the definition.
There is an infallible leader or set of leaders. Check. The WTB&TS claims to speak for God, and their pronouncements in their publications are to be regarded as the very word of God.
The cult holds out an extravagant hope. Check. Life everlasting on a paradise earth. Soon.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent in a cult are discouraged or even punished. Check. How many articles have you seen in the WT, Awake, etc., discouraging in the most strident terms, independent thinking?
The cult is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself and its leaders. Check. JWs are God's chosen people, and the governing body is the "only channel of communication" that God is using today.
The cult has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict or isolation with the wider society. Check. It's the JWs against everybody else, all of whom are caught up in the "world empire of false religion."
The cult adopts special terminology designed to give its members a feeling of settled, advanced insight when use of its meaningless phrases actually stifle real knowledge - subsituting sloganeering for thinking. Check. "World emplire of false religion," and "Babylon the Great," for instance.
The cult's leaders are not accountable to any authorities. Check. The WTB&TS does not file even the "informational" income tax return, for example. Its finances are totally secret. Where DOES all that money go? Can YOU think of any authority the JWs are subservient to? (Don't say Jehovah. We know what a joke that is.)
The cult teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group. Check. The WTB&TS has said in print that lying is an acceptable technique in their "spiritual war."
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them. Check. I remember entire study articles in the WT dealing with how great guilt feelings are, zeroing in especially on one of the Psalms in which David states that his "sin is constantly before" him, and holding that up as an example for good little JWs.
Members' subservience to the cult causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group. Check. No illumination here is even needed.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group. Check.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. Check.
I could go on further with this, but why bother? The organization of Jehovah's Witnesses is, and has always been, a cult. It is also a false prophet. Remember Deut. 18:20-22 and its comments about false prophets and what would happen to them?
In the WTB&TS publication "Jehovah's Witnesses In the Divine Purpose" the organization charges mainstream religions with revealing how they are false prophets and constitute a false religion by the fact that they will not come out and meet "Judge" Rutherford and others in debate in various halls that he had hired. Don't believe it? Get yourself a copy of the referenced publication if you can find one they haven't collected and destroyed. You will find the organization crowing very loudly about how this lack of willingness to debate proves how false they are.
I issue this challenge to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses: I will debate any aspect of your so-called religion with any one or all of you at any reasonable time, at any reasonable place, in the same spirit as disclosed in your publication "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose." You will be free to bring any publication, any "expert" of your choosing, and I will be able to do the same. I suggest a classical debate upon the proposition "Jehovah's Witnesses Constitute a Religious Cult." I will, of course, debate the affirmative.
I publicly accuse you of being false prophets, unworthy of notice, much less fear.
I publicly accuse you of constituting a false religion. And of operating nothing more than a publishing and real estate empire.
I publicly accuse you of the ruination of hundreds of thousands of lives and, in fact, of dealing to death - by your teachings - thousands of lives that did not have to be sacrificed to your illicit teachings.
I publicly accuse you of being what I have here proven: that you are a cult, not unlike any other two-bit cult to be found in their thousands on this planet.
And I publicly accuse you of being cowards who will NOT on any account accept this challenge. Proving for all to see that you are no more supported by God - much less that you are God's spokesmen - than I am the Virgin Mary.
You can accept this challenge at any time during the next 90 days from today, or until July 1, 2001 by posting your response as a new topic on this bulletin board. We all know you don't have the spine to do it.
And do you remember the contest between the priests of Jehovah and the priests of Baal? The priests of Baal couldn't make the fire come down and ignite the bonfire, but by their God, they did have the guts to show up. You won't.
Standing By.
Francoise
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Why are there more sisters than brothers?
by expatbrit init is generally acknowledged, and confirmed by experience, that there is a significant gender imbalance in the organisation.. there are considerably more sisters than there are brothers.
that's great for the brothers, because a lot of the poor jw lasses get so desperate that even the most dorky of brothers can take his pick.. but why is there this imbalance?.
it's true that birth rates show slightly more females being born than males (mother nature's way of safeguarding the future?
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Francois
Women are more gullible.
(Ok, Ok, let the stoneing begin.)
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55
Biblical Inerrancy
by Francois inis there any denial that at 1 kings 7:23, the value of pi is ascertained as 3.000?.
and where does this leave the idea that the bible is inspired in every word, jot, and tittle by god?
just wondering.. any takers?.
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Francois
Great Post, Jan. Spot on point.
I would be horrified to be a JW and discover I was using the same arguments that, say, are being used by the First Church of Jesus, Holy Roller. Of course, the JWs did file an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of Jimmy Swaggert. That's just how come they can't sell their literature any more. They've got to give it away. And I don't notice the JWs giving a big rat's ass that young men with young wives and little children, whom they have actively disuaded from getting an education, and thus a decent paying job, have got to purchase all those WTs and such only to give it away or, more likely, to line some bird cage some where. Hell, via their policy on blood they kill these people by the hundreds every year, what's saddling them with cash outlay they can ill afford, for magazines nobody wants?
As stated previously, the WTB&TS should be expunged from the earth, just like any other vermin.
Francoise
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Biblical Inerrancy
by Francois inis there any denial that at 1 kings 7:23, the value of pi is ascertained as 3.000?.
and where does this leave the idea that the bible is inspired in every word, jot, and tittle by god?
just wondering.. any takers?.
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Francois
Help!!
I can't get to page two of this thread. I get an error message.
Now what?
Someone can post direct with the answer if you like at [email protected] with my thanks.
Francoise
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Okay .... my turn
by RR inall this talk about the gb, and it being all white, well herd is a black man, so you afro-americans happy?
huh?
what i want to know is when is there going to be a puerto rican on the governing body, what, they afraid bethel will be serving rice and beans all day?
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Francois
Since whites are now only 47% of the population in California, does that mean that we now get to have minority set-asides for government contracts? Do we get to fail in school, but get socially promoted? Does that mean we can kill members of other groups and get away with it because we're a put-upon minority?
You know what I mean.
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"It's a conscience matter"
by expatbrit injust had dinner with my wife and a couple of her friends.. one of them was telling me about her sister-in-law, a very nice, kind person who i've met on several occasions.
it seems this sister got a job in an office as a receptionist/secretary.
last christmas (1999) her employer asked her to sign christmas cards for all the clients.
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Francois
And you good folk are SURPRISED about this?
Are you all aware that the WTB&TS has stated under oath to the European Court of Justice (or some such body) in connection with a case arising from Bulgaria that it takes NO POSITION, nor tries to tell any JW what to do on the issue of blood? That it is up to the individual?
Perhaps this is one of those dodges where the GB takes the position that in allowing a transfusion, the victim is revealing they no longer want to associate with the JWs. Jesus Christ, what a slimy dodge that is.
The more I know of JWs and their GB, the more I like my dog's shit.
I want to debate any one or ALL of the GB. Anytime. Anywhere. I want to debate them on ANY of their teachings. ANY. In public. Now. Today. Next week. Whenever. Except for the teaching about hell, the only thing they ever got right. Does anyone think they'll do it? Neither do I. And this is the same bunch that crowed so loudly in their publicaction "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" about now none of the clergy, after a time, would come out and debate them like men. NOW WHO IS HIDING? ARE ANY OF YOU JW GOVERNING BODY BASTARDS LISTENING?
Francoise.