Posts by quietlyleaving

86

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

by flipper in

barbara wanted me to ost this information about her discussion at a seminar which was held in europe first, then chicago just a week or two ago.

you'll find this link interesting.

all comments welcome.

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

by flipper in

barbara wanted me to ost this information about her discussion at a seminar which was held in europe first, then chicago just a week or two ago.

you'll find this link interesting.

all comments welcome.

p sacramento I think Marvin was referring to this post of his on p 2 here below. I agree with his view that Barbara is making " a statement of her personal belief that thousands of people among the Witnesses die each year because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine". She is sharing her opinion and providing an estimate of how many she thinks die each year. If your estimate and JWoods' estimate differs markedly then fine. My own estimate is closer to Barbara's.

Can a person be said to have false opinions If you guys (J Woods &P Sacramento) think so then that is your opinion

If JWoods or anyone else reacts suspiciously to assertions made then I say, “More power to em!”

In her discourse Barbara interjected:

“Literally, thousands of Witnesses die each year when there is need for whole blood or some blood components that JWs don’t approve of.”

Assuming Barbara is speaking of Watchtower’s blood doctrine, it is not unrealistic to say thousands of Witnesses die each year as a result of it. This is what Barbara’s statement is to me: a statement of her personal belief that thousands of people among the Witnesses die each year because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.

Based on an average mortality rate of 1 percent, around 100,000 individuals in the Witness population die each year. Because this population is at a higher risk because of refusing various blood products that would prevent premature death in certain instances then it is realistic to think that at least 2,000 or more deaths annually among this patient population is a result of refusing these products. The mortality rate would only have to increase 2/100th's to 1.02 percent to achieve the statistical number of 2,000 deaths.

The United States has approximately 1,500,000 individuals in the Witness community. Annually it would take only 6 Witness deaths in each state of the USA due to refusing blood to achieve an increase of 2/100th's of 1 percent mortality. (6!) It is not unrealistic to think this occurs assuming Witnesses are just as likely as everyone else to face need of transfusion that Watchtower forbids. Just like everyone else, Witnesses have babies, automobile accidents, accidents on the job, other blunt force traumas, cancers of all sorts, blood disorders, and the list goes on. And, guess what? Just like everyone else, Witnesses bleed. Lose enough blood and Witnesses will die just like anyone else. There is a point at which only a transfusion of some Watchtower forbidden blood product will prevent such a death. If refused, these patients die. End of story. They check out.

That Witnesses face extraordinary mortality as a result of Watchtower’s blood doctrine is established in vetted literature. Here is a link where this was presented a few years ago on this forum (hope it works): http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/135674/1/Deaths-Due-to-Watchtower-Blood-Doctrine-Statistic-on-one-patient-populat

This year another study from the Netherlands demonstrated that Witnesses presenting with maternity have a mortality rate 6 times higher than the national average purely because of refusing blood forbidden by Watchtower. (Ref. Van Wolfswinkel et al, Maternal mortality and serious maternal morbidity in Jehovah’s witnesses in the Netherlands, BJOG An International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 2009 p. 1103)

Though I understand, embrace and endorse suspicion, in this case I am not the least suspicious of Barbara’s believe on this point. It is likely that thousands die among those in the worldwide community of Witnesses because of Watchtower’s blood doctrine.

Marvin Shilmer

20

I DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK...!

by iknowall558 in

jw
friends

i need some help /advice.......think i'm finally starting to go crazy..... .

within a year...we've come out of org and lost all our friends...... we get shunned by all along with family members .... we have moved house....... and my youngest son ,7yrs, had to be taken out of his school because he couldn't cope with the shunning of me and his dad....... and recently i lost my husband, and my kids have lost their dad....he walked out on us 6weeks ago.. .

my friends....fellow apostates, have been invaluable to me and have been there from the word go.....i love them all so much... but lately, after doing so well and coping admirably considering.........he texted me tonight to say that ....some of my friends "have more than one face and would have me believe they only have my best interests at heart all of the time.

quietlyleaving

don't listen to him (((((iknowall)))))

I have found that a sad fact of life is that a part of human nature is to contrive and embroider stories to uphold oneself and denigrate those whom one wants to (but this can also be seen as telling the story from one's own angle including one's own mental and emotional makeup).

.........he texted me tonight to say that ....some of my friends "have more than one face and would have me believe they only have my best interests at heart all of the time." and "if i only knew what the people I call friends really are.."

and anyway I would think that only God can have one's best interests at heart all of the time. People are frail and human - notice how he expects supreme qualities from your friends for you and of course this isn't going to happen so then are they to be cast off?

"if i only knew what the people I call friends really are.."

in his estimation. Keep in front of you what you expect from your friends and don't be swayed by what he expects from your friends for you.

56

Swedish government declines to give JW financial support

by InquiryMan in

quite recently, watchtower in sweden applied for governmental financial support, as they are entitled to as a registered religious community.

however, the government declined to accept the application, stating that the reason was that the jws do not adhere to democratic values and standards and do not support mainstream values.. the witnesses are upset, because they feel discriminated against.

they state that the financial issue is not the real issue, but to be treated in a similar way as other religious communities.. they have appealed the decision and plan to send a report explaining the witnesses views in more detail.. the branch office chose the religious, pentecostal (assembly of god) newspaper "dagen" to make an interview.. here is the photo report of the article.. .

quietlyleaving

besty

thats why I think a clearly defined and transparent public benefit test should be applied to all 'so called' charities.

I'm not sure that a public benefit test could be more clearly defined and transparent than it is without getting into political hot water. And governments also have to adhere to democratic values themselves or at least to be able to defend their own democratic values by allowing it its broad spectrum of applicability.

But I hope the Swedish government is strongly influenced in its decision to deny JWs financial support, by how JWs deal with people who hold differing opinions within their fold.

The financial crisis is very bad news for charities - their assets are worth less, members donate less and cash stricken governments will turn their rapacious gaze to their tax-free status - expect public benefit to become a big issue:

"WTF good are you specifically doing to deserve tax-payer support?"

well over here lots of paid charity staff have lost their jobs or have seen their hours and wages reduced.

68

Please Describe Your Autumn

by compound complex in

welcome fall!.

please describe autumn in your community.

its feel.

quietlyleaving

were having an indian summer this week.

Autumn colours are gorgeous and now with the trees losing many of their leaves sunsets are more visible and absolutely amazing.

56

Swedish government declines to give JW financial support

by InquiryMan in

quite recently, watchtower in sweden applied for governmental financial support, as they are entitled to as a registered religious community.

however, the government declined to accept the application, stating that the reason was that the jws do not adhere to democratic values and standards and do not support mainstream values.. the witnesses are upset, because they feel discriminated against.

they state that the financial issue is not the real issue, but to be treated in a similar way as other religious communities.. they have appealed the decision and plan to send a report explaining the witnesses views in more detail.. the branch office chose the religious, pentecostal (assembly of god) newspaper "dagen" to make an interview.. here is the photo report of the article.. .

quietlyleaving

besty I think I agree with inquiryman, if we put aside personal feelings, Jehovahs witnesses do have some significant arguments supporting that they provide benefits to the community, just as other religious/non religious groups do.

But the blood transfusion issue, as it is no longer straightforward even for JWs to adhere to, can be seen to work against even their own community's interests. This would definitely be worth examining and focusing on by the Swedish government.

Disfellowshipping and shunning and the extreme measures the WTS adopts, while at the same time pretending that they don't encourage extremism, is another issue that adversely affects both their own community and the community at large. Very often the government has to pick up the financial costs too.

6

untitled

by behemot in

jw
friends

source: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/its_a_gateway_drug_to_a_lifeti.php.

(the blog of biologist mz myers).

it's a gateway drug to a lifetime of depravity!category: religion.

quietlyleaving

this one is a little controversial but it gave me a laugh

Posted by: Jello | October 12, 2009 11:41 PM

Wait, so if every Jehovah's Witness does as this pamphlet instructs, we and our children won't have to worry about competing with or having to put up with these god walloping doofs in the higher education system, job market and political elections? Ummm, what the down side? Seriously, if their solution to the 'problem' of liberal universities is to call a full retreat then we've just scored a major victory without really trying. Now if only we could get all the other sects of bible bangers to forsake college the Republican party would all but cease to exist. One can dream.

75

"The way of the truth is the best way of living. No better way can there be found."

by nicolaou in

"the way of the truth is the best way of living.. no better way can there be found.".

remember that?

it's the opening line to 'make the truth your own'.

quietlyleaving

another mantra is that they are putting Jehovah first and Jehovah pours out rich blessings.

I'm feeling quite convinced that as xjws grow in numbers and as Jehovahs witnesses continue to be challenged about the inhumaneness of their beliefs they will have to confront the reality of their self interest more and more.

The sad fact is that for many JWs becoming more ethically aware has to come from their leadership.

11

if the GB was female....?

by highdose in

jw
friends

just a wandering thought, what kind of religon would the jw's be if the situation was reversed and the gb was all female, only women could hold postions of power in the cong etc....?.

over to you my freinds....

quietlyleaving

I would probably leave the "truth" earlier, I cannot stand sisters taking the lead over the brothers.

I don't think you'd be the only one leaving earlier. Perhaps this is one of the reasons women aren't allowed to take the lead. I would hope that women would be looking at different models of keeping a community going and this in the present form of leadership would be seen as a threat.

56

Swedish government declines to give JW financial support

by InquiryMan in

quite recently, watchtower in sweden applied for governmental financial support, as they are entitled to as a registered religious community.

however, the government declined to accept the application, stating that the reason was that the jws do not adhere to democratic values and standards and do not support mainstream values.. the witnesses are upset, because they feel discriminated against.

they state that the financial issue is not the real issue, but to be treated in a similar way as other religious communities.. they have appealed the decision and plan to send a report explaining the witnesses views in more detail.. the branch office chose the religious, pentecostal (assembly of god) newspaper "dagen" to make an interview.. here is the photo report of the article.. .

quietlyleaving

However, the government declined to accept the application, stating that the reason was that the JWs do not adhere to democratic values and standards and do not support mainstream values.

the above is something for Jehovahs witnesses to think about.