Well I think it's time for me to pack it in again. Whenever I come on I eventually get to a point like it's all been said, even if it hasn't been said lately or in a particular way it's not really new, and I'd hate to hear myself ... repeat myself. ("Allow myself to introduce ... myself") Anyway, I was going to make some serious and unnecessarily long post, but instead I think the subject line says it all. Don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone folks, even when things are comfortable eventually it just gets a bit boring. What's next for you?
educ8self
JoinedPosts by educ8self
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4
Don't be afraid to change
by educ8self inwell i think it's time for me to pack it in again.
whenever i come on i eventually get to a point like it's all been said, even if it hasn't been said lately or in a particular way it's not really new, and i'd hate to hear myself ... repeat myself.
("allow myself to introduce ... myself") anyway, i was going to make some serious and unnecessarily long post, but instead i think the subject line says it all.
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54
DO YOU know how to be WRONG?? Should you TRY?
by Terry ina willingness to be wrong is the beginning of intellectual honesty.. are you willing?.
it hurts to be wrong.
it is often humiliating.
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educ8self
Hi Terry,
What I was trying to say is basically 'knowing nothing' as the initial state of the mind, before assumptions. Certainly one can first come to see that the acquired beliefs is incorrect and in effect amounts to nothing - but it is only a matter of clearing up the confusion.
I'd like to take/make the comment of Socrates being modest as an example. If taken literally, this would assume he was concerned about his self worth. I don't know much about Socrates, but if his sole concern was knowledge and understanding then that is neither here nor there - and based on that I'd imagine that kind of psychological tail chasing never occurred to him in the first place. We could consider him as a modest person, but that would be our thought, not his. Without that, of course, would make it a simple statement of fact.
And of course this is the exact problem with not wanting to be wrong, isn't it? It is as if the ego hears the word and avoids it and anything associated with it irrationally, regardless of what is actually the case. It is just as polarized as the concept of good and evil. So on a practical level, in light of this common view that it is bad to "be" wrong (corresponding to your self worth) and good to "be" right, this language in itself may put people on the defensive - whereas if you frame it in terms of correct and incorrect, or simply "do you really know this is true" or not, the thoughts you hold may not be true - that is not as threatening. I would just try to appeal to curiosity, the desire to (really) know. I think it is best to minimize any potential trigger for defense in the first place, because that self conscious thinking obscures
So I just think it is as much a psychological issue as it is an intellectual one, and essentially the contrast here would be between that initial state as self, rather than the complex of acquired beliefs that actually distorts the perception of reality.
Geez that was long - well basically I'm just trying to approach the same thing from the other end, seems to be simpler and easier.
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DO YOU know how to be WRONG?? Should you TRY?
by Terry ina willingness to be wrong is the beginning of intellectual honesty.. are you willing?.
it hurts to be wrong.
it is often humiliating.
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educ8self
DO YOU know how to be WRONG??
The wise man knows only that he knows nothing.
Knowing you are wrong is different from knowing you know nothing. Right and wrong is only a position, knowing nothing is open ended.
The mind is only an outline - that is a good one, but the more structure you have the more information becomes filtered rather than being absorbed in its natural form. When it comes to knowing nothing, it can be a much more direct.
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Are You Sure That You Don't Still Think & Act Like A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus indo you still have jw traits left remaining within you?
be honest.
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educ8self
Yes Minimus you have these subtle behaviors, but are they exclusive to JWs? Why frame it in terms of JWism? There are no doubt certain nuances that are specific to JWs, but it may be that JWs and exJWs are just not that unique - depending on what level you are looking at.
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Are You Sure That You Don't Still Think & Act Like A Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus indo you still have jw traits left remaining within you?
be honest.
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educ8self
If I wear a suit does that make me look like a JW? What if I buy a four door car? Obviously there are some things that are incidental, it makes more sense to no longer identify with it and let it fade naturally, than to hang on to the JW way of thinking to not be like that. If you have to hang on to something, hang on to something ELSE.
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Do You Recognize Your Baptism?
by sweetstuff ini was promised that this generation would no means pass away.
(live forever book, pg.
154) i brought this up, although it has probably been discussed before, because i am sure some people right now are worrying how to handle an elder's visit or call.
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educ8self
What I meant, as simply as possible, is: we all have(and, to a large extent, are) a "life story" in progress, which we constantly rewrite and modify as we add new paragraphs and chapters to it. We can (provisionally) declare it wonderful or awful, blessed or cursed, worthwhile or worthless; make it sound more cheerful or more dreadful, colour it with pride or shame; own to it or disown it -- as if our "true self" had been sleeping all along under some magic spell, to suddenly wake up "without a story" of his/her own at the last chapter. It's at the storyteller's discretion. But, like it or not, even the "storyless" character becomes part of the story and makes sense, if any, in the context of that particular story.
Narkissos:
Yes, thank you for making that distinction. It comes down to a matter of emphasis, after all not many really see that it is a story.
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educ8self
The love has to be smarter to deal with the violence, some call it heart-wisdom. There's a tendancy for the mind to kind of function separately from the heart, which is how things like this can drag us down. Some are just more of one than the other, it may help to have a friend that's the opposite to help balance us out - and make the acts of love more effective.
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Do You Recognize Your Baptism?
by sweetstuff ini was promised that this generation would no means pass away.
(live forever book, pg.
154) i brought this up, although it has probably been discussed before, because i am sure some people right now are worrying how to handle an elder's visit or call.
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educ8self
Being without a story (an interpretation/rationalization of past events) is actually being free from it.
Being, or pretending to?
Well that all depends on the individual of course, I suppose that is what you are getting at. That statement wasn't about any particular individual or even the collective response, it was a separate, general statement of fact. You didn't address anything else in the post so I am not sure how to address yours, but going by the other conversation in this thread I would just say you need to know, or have some sense of who you are (or just that you are) before you know what to take responsibility for - whatever that actually is for you.
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Ever have a "paranormal" event or experienced something unexplicable?
by fedorE inonce when i was returning from work i decided to take a short cut home.
it was the halloween week and ppl had their houses decked out.
i turned into a dark road that has a house just every so often.
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educ8self
I hate to reply before reading everything, but I gotta get to work (on time today) so I'll just throw this bit in - reading all the posts is more for my own interest anyway..
I wouldn't want to get into such things too much on a forum like this, what with the JW past that people has and such - if nothing else it could be confusing for people, or it could trigger something - like fear! I like that quote from Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than dreamt of in thy philosophy" - that kind of sums it up.
But why fear it? Although I don't want to get fired, so off to work I go, hi ho...
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Do You Recognize Your Baptism?
by sweetstuff ini was promised that this generation would no means pass away.
(live forever book, pg.
154) i brought this up, although it has probably been discussed before, because i am sure some people right now are worrying how to handle an elder's visit or call.
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educ8self
It does make sense from a spiritual point of view, here is what I mean: If the majority of people on here does not recognize there is any such thing as spirituality, or if their idea of such is so far removed from the JW one, then it couldn't be recognized in the same way as the JWs would view it. Yes it may be reinterpreted based on your current view, but then that's just another view - unless we can actually comment to the effect of what actually happend regardless of the perspective (or story, including psych theory) you view it from.
In any case, the main theme amongst ex-JWs seems to be they know what they are NOT, so in terms of who they ARE and how that experience fits into it, it would of course still be a work in progress, in spite of the obvious tendancy to disidentify with that past identity. (which is, of course a way of being defined by it - as it's opposite) For that matter, if someone is completely absorbed in an interpretation of their life story, they will not see who they are now, without any story. Being without a story (an interpretation/rationalization of past events) is actually being free from it.
edited to add:
I guess I should really say being free from any story, rather than the JW one in favor of another. But whatever floats your boat.