With regard to identifying the elders, the victim Karen Morgan works with Cedars, maybe you could email her for the names, although it was years ago so they may have died
http://jwsurvey.org/contact-us
Tornintwo
JoinedPosts by Tornintwo
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70
How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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Tornintwo
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70
How Far Apart Were Your Legs?
by Joe Grundy inseveral threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.
fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.
a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.
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Tornintwo
This case and one in Moston, Manchester where the victims of abuse were grilled in front of their abuser are both now the subject of an investigation by the Charities commission in the UK, which has also launched an investigation into the JWs General charity in UK over its safeguarding policies. It will be very interesting to see the results, which will hopefully at the least prevent this kind of questioning by non professional males of abuse survivors. Believed by many to be as bad as repeating the abuse.
there is a Wales TV documentary on this case too:
Also on YouTube,
what struck me in addition to the obvious abuse, cover up and grilling covered on the original thread was the treatment of the girl and her dad afterwards. She was disfellowshipped later (who can blame her for leaving the organization after this treatment) and he wanted to walk her down the aisle at her wedding years on, as a support and celebration of her recovery from abuse, for this he 'got into trouble' with the congregation, it's not clear whether he was df'd or da'd. How disgusting! They should have been celebrating with her that she recovered from this horrific experience and was starting her own family, but all they can do is judge.
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Ray Franz and You.
by John Aquila inif ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.
would we have come this far?.
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Tornintwo
I was recommended COC on this site just a couple of months ago. It did a great deal to unravel my faith in the GB, it's clear from the book that they weren't making decisions based on Holy Spirit and were dangerously intrusive into people's lives. I also had no idea about the Malawi/Mexico hypocrisy which was horrifying.
i wish someone new would do the same as Ray, to have an up to date perspective, a higher up in bethel or GB, especially would love to know more about the financial aspects.
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This generation revisited.
by Bigdummy init's 1:30 am and i'm wide awake again as usual.
i was doing a little bible reading yesterday and.
came across luke 11:29 where jesus states " when the crowds were increasing, he began to say,.
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Tornintwo
They've tied themselves in knots trying to give an 'accurate' interpretation of every scripture, to prove that they are the ones to whom the secrets of the scriptures are being revealed by God, in reality they have proved the opposite to any objective observer. -
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WT Mantras / Thought Stoppers
by Ding ini've been thinking about how the gb controls jws through the use of short phrases or scripture quotes (often partial quotes ripped out of context).. think of the sound-bite responses you know jws are going to give you in response to points you try to make to them.. ones that come to my mind immediately are:.
-- "the light gets brighter and brighter.".
-- "who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave?".
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Tornintwo
'Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together..' I.e. Don't miss the meetings
'its an organisation of imperfect men' (used to excuse bullying and other unpleasant behaviour by hierarchy)
'we must be humble and wait on Jehovah' (meaning, if you have a genuine complaint, you must be too proud)
'we mustn't murmur or cause contentions' (similar to the above, 'never mind you have a valid cause for complaint against brother important, you have to put up and shut up otherwise youre a troublemaker)
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Witnesses and anxiety disorder
by mana11 ini saw this on a public user group for jw's .
the librarian [email protected].
the caption reads:.
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Tornintwo
Iownmylife, Marina has it spot on...
also how many pioneers do you know who are sick? I've known loads who pioneer half the year then get sick and take 2 months off ill and get all the sympathy and encouragement to keep going despite illness, so they go back on the treadmill to pioneer again....I've often thought, why don't they stop pioneering and enjoy better health?
These illneses are a (subconscious) excuse for many to get off the hyper treadmill for a while without guilt or fear of judgement. The whole org from the mind control leaders to the overwrought, sick sisters would make a fascinating psychological study.
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Love and forgiveness....
by Tornintwo ini've been musing a lot about the 'love' that exists in the organisation.
what i've noticed over the last 20 odd years is that an overemphasis on the requirement for forgiveness by those who have been wronged.
of course as christians we should forgive eachother, but i'm talking about obvious abusive and bullying behaviour by 'prominent' ones, which is excused by the ageold 'we are all imperfect'..... 'its an organisation of imperfect men....', you should forgive.....and quickly dismissed.
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Tornintwo
Umbertoecho, This is one of the things that drives me crazy, they expect us to forgive even when the other person hasn't apologized or even acknowledged the wrong. In our case, our family has been mistreated by a prominent elder who had shunned my kids and insulted me and my husband in the strongest terms, I tried to approach to make peace and he insulted me even more! What caused this? we caught his kid sending hardcore porn to another kid and his family didn't want to admit it or deal with it.
No one wants to call him out on the way he has treated us because he is in the boys club, we just have to let it go, leave it with Jehovah, forgive and forget etc. while listening to him give talks at assemblies.
i know from past experience that this isn't the first experience like this and won't be the last, it makes me sick, but at least it started my awakening.
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Resistance is NOT futile!
by Bonsai inall i want from this life is to be able to wash windows at bethel.. my story.. when i was fresh out of high school and pioneering, i said those exact words to my friends and family.
all i wanted to do was be at the core of the organization where it was the safest.
i gleefully told people that i'd gladly spend the rest of my life washing windows, waiting tables, doing laundry or cleaning bathrooms.
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Tornintwo
Wow thanks for telling your story, it's fascinating to hear the steps different people take in awakening.
The funeral story is outrageous, legalism at its worst.
have you been harassed on the way out, or have they let you leave quietly? It's great you have your wife's agreement, wish my husband would even consider that the GB might just be wrong.
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Love and forgiveness....
by Tornintwo ini've been musing a lot about the 'love' that exists in the organisation.
what i've noticed over the last 20 odd years is that an overemphasis on the requirement for forgiveness by those who have been wronged.
of course as christians we should forgive eachother, but i'm talking about obvious abusive and bullying behaviour by 'prominent' ones, which is excused by the ageold 'we are all imperfect'..... 'its an organisation of imperfect men....', you should forgive.....and quickly dismissed.
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Tornintwo
I've been musing a lot about the 'love' that exists in the organisation.
What I've noticed over the last 20 odd years is that an overemphasis on the requirement for forgiveness by those who have been wronged. Of course as christians we should forgive eachother, but I'm talking about obvious abusive and bullying behaviour by 'prominent' ones, which is excused by the ageold 'we are all imperfect'..... 'its an organisation of imperfect men....', you should forgive.....and quickly dismissed. The lowly one who has been subject to the mistreatment is told to forgive, forget, move on, get over it. If they try to keep asking for justice, they are accused of pride, selfishness, murmuring or more subtly told to 'work on humility', not to make waves, not to cause contentions etc. etc. oh and finally the tried and tested 'leave it with Jehovah' Usually the abuser is in a prominent position in the hierarchy and the abused/mistreated is in a lowly position or even, heaven forbid, 'not in good standing'.
The all too often result is individuals who are bent on power and like to bully others have every excuse to get away with it. The mistreated ones have to put up and shut up, leave it with Jehovah, forgive etc etc.
As in any abusive relationship, unresolved this situation leads either to depression and self-criticism by the mistreated one who believe they are not good enough, not humble enough etc etc or to simmering resentment and eventual questioning by the stronger minded - As in, is this really Jehovah's organisation after all?
Wouldnt it be refreshing if those who were mistreating others were chastised and disciplined and told to be more christian, told to apologise or stripped of privileges etc, instead of the victims being told to just put up with unchristian behaviour.
Prov 21:13 “Anyone stopping up his ear from the complaining cry of the lowly one, he himself also will call and not be answered.”
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Australia public hearing on child abuse in JWs
by Tornintwo injust in case you didn't know, must have missed a thread because i didn't until i found it on google this morning, there is to be a public hearing about child abuse in jw organization in australia, starting 27th july, should be revealing.
will be watching for reports with interest:.
https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2015-06/public-hearing-into-the-jehovahs-witnesses.
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Tornintwo
Just in case you didn't know, must have missed a thread because I didn't until I found it on google this morning, there is to be a public hearing about child abuse in jw organization in australia, starting 27th July, should be revealing. Will be watching for reports with interest: