Posts by garybuss

57

Is WTS Behind Stalking, Espisonage and Harrassment of Ex-JWs?

by Scott77 in

jw
friends

several ex-elders, bethelites, ministerial servants, the rank and files of ex-jws on this site are writing about being stalked, harrassed, having their homes peeped through, car broken into while others such as gubberningbody, reports of recieving unsolicited calls from kh elders from another congregation.

the numerous stories are very troubling.

although some members have denied this existance of this lllegal activity, the underlying question continues to puzzle our minds: is wts behind stalking, espisonage and harrassment of ex-jws?

garybuss

When I was a young Witness Merlin Marvin from Vermillion and Lance Roberts from Yankton South Dakota stalked me. If those bastards did that today, they'd be in prison where they belong.

After I went public with my Witness story, Witnesses RUN away from me. I sure don't have any stalking problems with them today:-) The crop of Witnesses I see today are little more than bumbling idiots. They couldn't find their way out of a paper bag with a map and a flashlight.

61

A Secret about DF'ing that Elders will NEVER tell you.

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when i discussed this with some ex-jws in the past, they have pointed out to me that the following is not done in actual pracrice.

of course it is not done in practrice ... that is why i referred to it as a "secret" because elders do not normally disclose such information, either because they fear its effect, or because they have not thoroughly paid attention to the "pay attention" book.

in this post, i am not arguing about actual practice ... rather what the undisclosed, withheld, secretive information is ... and how being armed may allow """some""" jws to relax their conscience.. a secret that elders will not openly tell you.

garybuss

The only thing that would piss me off is if the Witness relatives, who have shunned me and people important to me, started to un-shun us. Thanks to their departures I have a good life.

13

Do you think your JW family REALLY hates you? Or do they THINK they love you?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i am referring to some of us that have had bad experiences with our jw family and friends.

even those of us that are "active" but we have expressed certain things about the organization.. do you really feel your witness family hates you?

or does your family think they are being loving to you by doing things "jehovah's way?".

garybuss

Do you think your JW family REALLY hates you? Or do they THINK they love you?

I only care how people treat me and how they treat people important to me. I don't care about motives or illusions or delusions. I only care about action. If you treat me as if you hate me, that's my definition of hate.

I've got a really low tolerance for rude, mean, disrespectful people. I've got a no free pass policy and a three strike rule. People who disrespect me, my family, or my friends, are out of my game forever.

I don't buy into the "blame the printing company" game to excuse bad behaviors. I believe people are acting of their own free will and they are personally responsible for all their behaviors (much the same way a court of law looks at behaviors). Ignorance, or running with a gang, or being deluded by reading a book doesn't cut it with me. If you act bad, you are bad.

There have been some notable exceptions, but by and large, my Jehovah's Witness relatives have been a disappointing group of people. The best thing to put between them and me has been time and distance.

9

Should Homeless People Be Fined if they don't Vacate?

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

in sacramento, apparently, the homeless in the tent city are going to be hit with a fine if they don't get out of dodge!

now, i'm not sure how you go about getting them to pay that fine, but i guess they could head on over to florida to check out that system.

there was an interview on the radio yesterday where one kind fellow said that if hey didn't get 'out', that someone would go in and destroy all belongings that were there.

garybuss

Sounds like our mental patient outpatient program here. They check them out of the hospital, call a cab and have them taken to bum's corner on sixth and main. True story.

43

WBTS -A MODERN-DAY 'NAZI PARTY'??

by Scott77 in

jw
friends

considering the way the wbts controls and manipulates people in its mental grip, is it logical to compare it to the the infamous german nazi party?

is this an exageration?

what parallel can be drawn between the two?

garybuss

FASCISM VS THEOCRACY

THEOCRACY: God Rule
(Paradise Restored To Mankind By Theocracy, Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society of New York, Inc., 1972, p.13)
FASCISM
Fascism, philosophy of government that glorifies the nation-state at the expense of the individual. Major concepts of fascism include opposition to democratic and socialist movements; racist ideologies, such as ANTI-SEMITISM; aggressive military policy; and belief in an authoritarian leader who embodies the ideals of the nation.
(The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia, 1995)

FASCISM, is a form of government headed, in most cases, by a dictator. It involves total government control of political, economic, cultural, religious, and social activities. (The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 7, 1979,p.52-54)

The Watch Tower Society claims it is a Theocracy form of government. Ruled from the top [God] down by [using] a dictatorial committee [Governing Body]. It involves total control of: political activity of members by prohibiting membership in [other] political parties and voting in general elections; cultural intercourse by discouraging artists, musicians, and athletics; religious freedom by ostracism of members who seek outside religious association; and social activities by strongly discouraging members from associating with anyone not approved by the group leaders.
Fascism resembles Communism. But unlike Communism, which calls for the government to own all industry, fascism allows industry to remain in private ownership, though under government control. Other important features of fascism include extreme patriotism, warlike policies, and persecution of minorities. (ibid.)
The Watch Tower Society [The Theocracy] resembles Communism. But unlike Communism, The Theocracy allows members to own private business, though under Theocracy "suggestions and guidelines" plus all group member workers must follow "Society directives" (Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock, p.138). Other important features of The Theocracy include extreme loyalty to the Dictatorial Committee [Governing Body], warlike policies, e.g. Theocratic War Strategy, and hatred of perceived enemies [often dissenting former group members].
Political Life.
In most cases, fascists have come to power after a nation has suffered an economic collapse, a military defeat, or some other disaster. The fascist party wins mass support by promising to revive the economy and to restore national pride. The fascists may also appeal to a fear of Communism or a hatred of Jews and other minorities. Eventually, the fascists may gain control of the government?through peaceful elections or by force. (ibid.)
The Theocracy came to power after World War I and after the death of it's charismatic leader and founder, Charles Taze Russell. The Theocracy won support by: identifying a perceived enemy, including all [other] governments, all [other] big business, and all [other] religion, especially the Catholic religion; providing a clear definition of "the problem" and offering an absolute solution; and by claiming an exclusive way to the ideal condition, e.g. heaven, new world, perfect body, etc. The Theocracy appealed to those with a fear of communism and a hatred for the Catholics and other religions.
After the fascist party takes power, its members replace the men and women in the executive, judicial, and legislative branches of the government. In most cases, one individual?usually a dictator with great popular appeal?becomes the leader of the government. Sometimes, a committee of party members holds the government leadership. Fascists permit no other political party and no opposition to their policies. (ibid)
After The Theocracy [Joseph Rutherford] took power, it's members took the Watch Tower Society's leadership positions as executive, judicial, and legislative branches of the organization. After a brief intra-Society power struggle, Joseph Franklin Rutherford emerged as the clear leader. Today the leadership is a dictatorial committee called, "The Governing Body" made up of members who have proven their loyalty to the system installed largely by Rutherford. The Theocracy permits no other political party and no opposition to their policies.

The fascist desire for national glory leads to an increase in military spirit and a build-up of the armed forces. After the military forces become strong enough, they may invade and occupy other countries. (ibid)
The Theocracy considers itself to be in "Theocratic Warfare" and "publishers" are seen as theocratic soldiers fighting a "spiritual battle". Congregations, in recent history, were known as "companies". Members are referred to as the "rank and file". Numbers of spiritual soldiers [publishers] are seen as proof of divine direction and the armies have advanced upon every country in the world.
Economic Life. A fascist government permits and even encourages private enterprise?as long as such activity serves the government's goals. However, the government maintains strict control of industry to make sure it produces what the nation needs. The government discourages imports by putting high tariffs on certain essential products or by banning imports of those products. It does not want to depend on other countries for such vital products as oil and steel. (ibid)
The Theocracy form of government of The Watch Tower Society permits and even encourages private enterprise to a degree?as long as such activity serves the government's goals. However, The Theocracy maintains strict control of member owned industry to make sure it produces what the Society needs. The Society discourages member's buying and reading independent Bible commentaries and other products not produced by the Theocracy's factories. It does not want to depend on [other] business to produce reading and research material for the "rank and file".
The government also forbids strikes so that production will not be interrupted. Fascism outlaws labor unions and replaces them with a network of organizations in the major industries. These organizations, which consist of both workers and employers, are called corporations, but they differ from those in other countries. Fascist corporations supposedly represent both labor and management but actually are controlled by the government. Through the corporations, the government determines wages, hours, and production goals. As a result, a fascist country is sometimes called a corporative state. (ibid)
The Theocracy uses guilt and fear to keep members from taking vacations [silent strikes] from "service" [fundraising and recruiting]. The Society has installed it's own network of organization guidelines and directives as well as the necessary enforcement representatives in the member's lives. Individual congregations, as well as every facet of the group member's life, are controlled by the Theocratic government and it's official representatives. Through the individual congregations, the Theocracy government determines member's privileges, schedules their required activities, and reinforces their Theocratic goals.

Personal Liberty is severely limited under a fascist government. For example, the government limits travel to other countries and restricts any contact with their people. The government also controls the newspapers, radio, and other means of communication in its country. It issues propaganda to promote its policies, and it practices strict censorship to silence opposing views. All children are required to join youth organizations, where they exercise, march, and learn fascist beliefs. A secret police force crushes any resistance. Opposition may lead to imprisonment, torture, and death. (ibid)
Personal liberty is severely limited under The Watch Tower Society's Theocratic government. For example, the government limits association with [other] churches and discourages any personal contact with their people. The Theocratic government also controls the information it's members have access to. It issues it's own propaganda to promote it's policies, and it practices strict censorship to silence opposing views, ostracizing members who admit to reading information critical of the Society. All children are intimidated to begin service and silent meeting attendance at an early age by parents who will not be eligible for privileges [unpaid group jobs] unless children comply. Children of privileged adults are required to learn Theocratic beliefs and to behave as though they accept these as fact, sometimes as a condition for them to remain a resident of the family home. A structured enforcement system exists to guarantee enforced compliance with the dictatorial committee's directives, including convention "attendants" [private police], organizationally directed as well as freelance surveillance of group members, and the powerful "elder arrangement", which judges members compliance to the "directives" in secret trials called "judicial committee meetings", where the leadership selected, all male panel issues summonses, hears witness testimony, reads charges, determines innocence or guilt, and passes sentence on the accused. Often the sentence is a "disfellowshiping order", under which members in good standing are required to snub and shun errant members even if they are relatives.

Fascists consider all other peoples inferior to those of their own nationality group. As a result, a fascist government may persecute or even kill Gypsies, Jews, or members of other minority groups. (ibid)
The Theocracy considers all [other] business, government, and religion inferior to their own and operated for the benefit of the power of evil. As a result the Theocratic government of the Watch Tower Society may persecute by ostracism members and leaders of opposing [all] business, political, governmental, and religious institutions [organizations], including shunning, snubbing, and verbal as well as printed attacks and public name calling. (Chaplinsky V. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 58)

44

Are there things they DON'T tell you until AFTER you're baptized?

by lavendar in

jw
friends

.

just wondering....... are there certain teachings / beliefs they don't tell a person who is studying....until after they're baptized?.

.

garybuss

I was raised by Witness parents. When I was 12, my mother informed me that my protection under family merit had expired and that god would murder me unless I went to a Jehovah's Witness convention and took a bath in public.

Peter Gregerson once said on a television program in Vancouver, B.C. that being raised a Jehovah's Witness was like being raised in an insane asylum with retarded parents. (Jim Penton May 14, 1996)

31

About the "but it's run by imperfect men" argument.

by SPAZnik in

jw
friends

by the same token, couldn't any religion use the same argument to excuse their flaws and atrocities?

they are, after all, run by "imperfect" men as well.

i guess that means they're actually inspired of god too, but simply run by imperfect men who make mistakes..

garybuss

The Watchtower June 15, 2007, pages 26-3017 "This includes our being willing to obey directions from those who are taking the lead in true worship, though they are imperfect."

Jehovah's Witnesses always told me that they do not follow men, that they only follow Jehovah and Jesus. If Jehovah's Witnesses are to "obey" those who are "taking the lead", who are those "taking the lead" leading . . . and who did they "take" the lead from? The leaders are not "in" the lead, they "take" the lead.

If Jehovah's Witnesses are not following men, they can't be following the men taking the lead. So who is following those men taking the lead if not Jehovah's Witnesses? And why would Jehovah's Witnesses need to "obey" a man they are not following?

17

Thanks! Thanks !Thanks !Scully & Anghard I am resurrected

by mouthy in

jw
friends

i called scully .

then i couldnt get back in to see angies e-mail again .

so frustrated i called scully she lead me through how to delete.

garybuss

Good job!

48

Have You Ever Walked Out Of a KH "Meeting"?

by african GB Member in

did you have enough of boasting, and decided to walk out?.

that's what happened to me during this week's bs about how to "treat the disfellowshipped"?.

i just picked up my bag and stormed out...... will i get called into the back room?.