Posts by garybuss

23

can the marriage work

by DIAMOND in

jw
friends

is it even remotly possible that a marriage can work if the wife is a jw and the husband who has been one for over 30 years is on his way out.

is there any advice on how this can work or is it just doomed for divorce!!!!

i love my wife and kids but she's not handeling this very well at all.

A better question might be, will my expectations be met? or my needs? or will I be "happy"? or will the minor children be well cared for? can the property be divided? can the debt be divided? or the biggie . . . will the divorce work?

What is a marriage? what is it's nature? what is it's purpose? what is reasonable to expect a marriage to provide? why do about half of the marriages in the USA divorce? are there ANY successful marriages? is any marriage that does not divorce a success? can I describe a marriage satisfactory to both principles? is marriage an ancient ritual no longer needed?

Why was marriage started historically? what is family law? why can two people enter into a contract but they can not end it? How does illness affect a marriage? serious illness? or is it about control? or power?

why is agreement necessary for a marriage to function? can a marriage be reduced to it's elements? can we name the elements?

If I can't answer all these simple questions with rational informed answers, I am not ready to ask, "can the marriage work", because I don't understand the issue enough to make a decision.

gb

22

Answers for a term paper

by drivr in

jw
friends

i am a 36 year old father of 2 girls putting himself through night school to get a college degree.

in my current sociology class we have to do a paper in an interview style of a culture, subculture or group that we know nothing about and are interested in.

i decided to find out about jehovah witnesses.

garybuss

What is a Jehovah Witness?
We are people who serve Jehovah as taught by the Governing Body.

What made you decide to join the Jehovah Witnesses? The books written by the Governing Body.

Are you happy being a witness?
Yes, the Governing Body has the truth.

Why do you go door to door?
The Governing Body tells us to.

How often do you meet for services? Every day or as the Governing Body tells us to.

What is the significance of the number 144,000?
It is a number that the Governing Body knows is true.

Why do Witnesses refuse blood transfusions? The Governing Body tells us to.

Why do Witnesses refuse organ transplants?
The Governing Body used to tell us to but not anymore.

Are you allowed to serve in the military? No, the Governing Body says it is wrong.

What is the WatchTower?
It is a magazine written by the Governing Body.

Why dont you celebrate holidays or birthdays?
The Governing Body says it is wrong.

Those were the easy questions. I almost hate asking these next few because I dont want to offend anyone and not have them answer the questions. So if I offend anyone with these next questions I sincerely apologize, I have to ask them because I read about these issues on the internet.

What is with the date 1975?
The Governing Body never said they were inspired.

Who is Frederick W. Franz?
He is not on the Governing Body anymore.

Does the WatchTower contradict itself?
No, it seems to, but the Governing Body says it does not.

Are you really shunned if you are thrown out?
The Governing Body doesn't actually throw anyone.

Are you allowed to study any version of the bible or do you have to use study guides?
The Governing Body studies for us and writes their words by divine directions.

Do you have doubts about this religion?
No, the Governing Body does not allow doubting.

27

QUEENIE home from HOSPITAL !!

by QUEENIE in

jw
friends

yes everyone i am home from the hospital after a 3--1/2 week stay due to veineous leg ulcers...as a diebetic it takes forever to heal..now another 3 month rest...no line dancing no dancing at all..in a few minutes i have been instructed by lisa to lay down and put up my feet 4 a while...i have been sitting up long enough...now i need to take a nap...i will compose something as to my stay it was an experience to say the least...i missed you all..i am addicted to this site !!!

(((((hugs))))) queenie

garybuss

Hi Linda, Glad you are home and doing better.

gb

66

Yes the WT Told Millions of Youth NO COLLEGE!!

by JT in

jw
friends

*** watchtower september 1 1975 p.543 questions from readers *** .

how many years of secular education are advisable for children in christian households?

today, there are many teenage baptized servants of jehovah... how far should they go with a secular education?

garybuss

Millions now living will never learn. WTB&TS inc.

gb

6

Meeting with JW's weekly-HELP!

by bound2fly2002 in

hello,am new here and have questions .

i need to know what the topic of knowledge leads to life is really about and if anyone can tell me scriptures that would be helpful to refute this.

have been studying with them for quite awhile and have visited the hall a couple of times.

garybuss

Hi bound,

Apocalyptic groups are usually based on one of two formats. One is science fiction and, two, is religious fiction. The Witnesses base theirs on religious fiction.

Religious fiction, like science fiction requires assumptions, like the assumption that extraterrestrials actually do exist. The way to deal with a science fiction believer is not to debate how many fingers are on the hand of a extraterrestrial. The way to deal with them is to question the assumption that the extraterrestrial does in fact exist.

Seek out the assumptions and ask the believer to objectively prove the assumptions.

My guess is you are probably operating on a baseline of assumptions close to the JW recruiters own. Before you can question the core assumptions of the JW's you will need to deal with your own assumptions and confirm those or eliminate them.

The story book is absolutely the wrong place to challenge a story.

You might want to pick up a copy of The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan and read it as a starting point.

Best wishes.

gb

23

Question for xJW historians

by larc in

jw
friends

for those of you who have an interest in jw history, and have studied it, what do you see as the similiarities and differences between russell and rutherford.

now, i am not looking for superficial answers like, they were both full of shit.

i am looking for some content here.

garybuss

Russell honestly and ethically continued that started by William Miller while he kept the tradition and the dates of the Second Adventist movement, making publishing a business and enabled a religion to be a religion.

Rutherford dishonestly and unethically manipulated control of the assets of the Bible Student aggregate, purged many Bible Students, made publishing a weapon, and made hate and resentment a religion.

Franz and Knorr mostly purged religion from the religion and turned it all into a huge secular publishing corporation, expanded the hate and resentment, initiated dishonest recruiting practices and Theocratic warfare, isolated members, established blood medical treatment guidelines, entrenched the family merit doctrine, and enforced disfellowshipping orders by shunning any not practicing shunning.

The Henschel era until the 2000 restructuring, was kept busy with damage control due to the huge numbers of dissidents caused by the 1975 fiasco and major changes in core doctrine like the dispensing with the "1914 generation" doctrine in 1995. Doctrinally the era was marked by reversals, such as the alternative military service issue, compromise, like the blood medical teaching that blood fractions are a conscience matter, and introductions of new power classes like the Chieftains.

The post reorganization period, after October, 2000, has been a time of reaction as shown in the creation of a public relations department, a press desk where replies are instant rather than sometimes taking months as in the past, and easy communication of dissenters via the Internet. 2002 has brought international media attention and lawsuits by victims of the Society's policies and agents.

22

Should I "ex JW" SHUN my JW family??

by curiouschristy in

jw
friends

i haven't posted in a while... been very busy lately.

i am glad to be back though, i started reading the posts right away, and immediately felt comfort for how you guys are feeling, knowing i feel the same way.

not many of you know my story.... but for a quick run down... i'm a disf'd jw, for about 11 yrs now, i'm 28, disf'd at the tender age of 17... my mother and sister are still in the org... they only talk to me when they want to, it doesn't have to be an important event, life or death or anything.

garybuss

When I realized my JW relatives were practicing fractional shunning on me I was angry and I was determined to stop it. I certainly had and have mixed feelings about confronting them about it. The fractional shunning has certainly stopped.

I realized that I had been giving them free access to my wife and children and one by one the JW's were seducing them and teaching them that I was bad association. They had my wife and two of my 4 sons factional shunning me before I put a stop to it.

Now, I would never let a practicing JW within 100 miles of my family.

gb

20

Hard to celebrate holidays after leaving the Org.?

by santacruzchick in

jw
friends

for those of you who grew up in 'the troof', after leaving, did you find it hard or uncomfortable in any way to celebrate holidays and bithdays since you had no ties to them whatsover?

if so, how did you deal with it?

garybuss

I find the holidays are not important to me. I have to force myself to remember birthdays and get out and buy gifts and cards. Christmas is easier. It only comes once a year. Birthdays are much harder.

gb

24

Would the WT society disfellowship Jesus?

by ELON14 in

jw
friends

about three weeks before i handed in my letter of disassociation (two months ago) two elders from my congregation came to my door,for the first time since my son's death (which happened 8 months earlier).i knew it wasn't a special love for me or my family that suddenly motivated them to come.for few weeks prior to that visit i was sharing the new truth about the 'truth' that i was discovering with any listening ear.

now it was obvious to me that these two elders had been sent by the body of elders to hear it themselves so it can be used against me...and hear they did.

the 'poor' elders had to stand there (they refused to come in) and listen to it all.

garybuss

ELON14, Good post, Thanks!

It was a similar realization that crystallized one of the last elements in the series of increments making up the dissonance package that induced me not to return.

I had just had a trip to the back room at the KH and was criticized for not wearing a necktie to the group meeting on the day I was microphone boy. As I walked out I realized Jesus would not qualify to be microphone boy at the meeting if he did not show up wearing an IBM business suit with a necktie. That was the incident that ended my association.

At that moment it was like in the movie The Wizard Of Oz when the little dog Toto pulled back the curtain and exposed the wizard as a fraud. I was gone. I was pissed. . . but I was on my way to being free.

Disfellowship Jesus, Hahahahahaha Love it!

gb

33

Are Parents Who Shun Their Children At Risk?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

who looks after the welfare of ageing witness parents who have disfellowshipped children?

are these df'd children (actually, some of these df'd children are in their 60's) meant to ignore being ignored and then care physically for their non speaking parents?

also, can df'ing your own children lead to witness parents suffering illness or even death as a result?.

garybuss

They were warned not to have children . . . to wait for the new world. But they had us anyway and in a way they felt guilty because they did. The Society always came first, before our rest, before our hunger, before our educations. They were warned by the Society that we would rebel and they tried to control us. They were told to discipline us and to not spare the rod and many of them were generous with the rod.

The Society was always between them and us and they told us that if we ever left "the truth" they would cast the first stone to kill us if it were legal. They were always ready emotionally to dispense with us and when the day came, they saw it as a test and many of them passed and they were glad. We never were really allowed to be important to them . . . just a project that went bad.

The Society has the truth . . . they must . . . and we were just another sign the end is near, a disappointment to their god, the Watch Tower. To quit shunning us would make them a failure too and now that they are so old "the truth" is all they have and they see their miserable life of abuse and neglect as successful and good. They are proud, they are poor, they are old, they have not seen the grand rewards they were promised and they see the reward now as death and a resurrection into a perfect replica body to live happily ever after in a park like the park across the road from their home, like the park we never had time to go to.

So they sit alone. They don't make many meetings now. They are too sick and tired. The phone sits on the table but it doesn't ring. The books they spanked us for not paying attention to at the book study have been packed away in a box in the attic for years now, all replaced by paperbacks with new ideas and color pictures.