Who can assure us that the … experience told in the magazine is a true story? LOL
Posts by Nick!
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25Nobody from her church visited her - Jan 2010 WT study experience
by truthseeker ini find paragraph 20 quite interesting in the jan 2010 study article.
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/w_f-st_e_20100115.pdf.
"prove to be a real follower of christ".
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20
Legally prevent minor chidren being baptized? Anybody done it? can it be done?
by Aussie Oz ini am about to go into mediation with the ex to negotiate new child access arangements.
i was wondering about being able to negotiate this.
i may also end up going to court so it would be good to know if this ever been done.
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Nick!
Aussie,
The subject of minor’s baptism was raised in my, let’s call it, “dissociation” letter.
The argument was mentioned, not because I expected any recognition of it by the Watchtower, but as a valid argument against the practice, as currently adopted by Jehovah’s Witnesses, to be made known to the public in general and particularly to current JW of whom about 400 received a copy of my dissociation letter.
I started by highlighting the fact that JW denigrate other religious groups because of their practice to baptize newborn babies, as, they say, these cannot be “disciples” of Christ and cannot use their free will to adhere to their parents faith.
On the other hand, JW practice a kind of baptism which is open not only to major adults with a free will, but also to children a few years old, on the ground that these children got to “know” the truth and understand what dedicating oneself to Jehovah means.
I myself got baptized at the age of 12 and had a given knowledge of what the WT was teaching at the time. Obviously, as I was brought up in a JW family, whatever was taught to me was basically OK and it was simply normal for a teenager of my age to pretend to understand what dedicating oneself to Jehovah meant.
However, it is worth noting that, at that time there were no 120 questions reviewed by an elder with the candidate before his baptism to ascertain that he really understood what the teachings were at that time, and what it meant to become a dedicated JW.
But this is not the point, as the same applied to minors and adults.In addition, the two questions regularly asked to the baptism candidates at the convention during the special talk were not the same back then in 1957 when I got baptized.
None of the question ever made any to any “Organization”!
Therefore, the act of undergoing baptism in any form practiced by the JW, never implied loyalty to an Organization, which is the case right now based on Question No.2 which states that the “baptism identifies you as a JW, associated to the Organization directed by the Holy Spirit”.Therefore, TODAY, no minor should be asked to sign a contract (which is what the baptism is) binding the candidate into a relationship not only with God, which may be considered as acceptable no matter the age, but to an Organization, that is to say a Human Legal Entity which forces minor into a lifelong contract signed before being legally capable of signing any kind of contract.
In addition, being a minor, the act is never “approved” by the legal tutor or the parents, and remains an isolated contractual act made by a minor without any legal assistance under the influence of the stronger adult part represented by the WT Organization.Although it is true that in the Bible, we do not find any account of newborn being baptized, we do not find either any case of minor kids being baptized. The account of Timothy, although taught since his young age into the faith of his mother and grandmother, never mentions his baptism in an age which can be indicated as “minor”.
Of course, you cannot condemn a religious group from instituting and practicing a type of ceremony which identifies you as a member of that faith, as in the case of circumcision by Jews and Muslims, or baptism by Christians, be it JW or not, but is illegal, from my viewpoint, to pretend that the act is to be considered binding to a human organization and that, deviating from the current or future teachings of that religious but human organization equates rejecting Christ and his teachings, as this is usually implied when a JW, baptized in his minor age, dissents from what he considers only a human teaching.
But how could we bring up to court the issue that the baptism of minors or not, as practice by JW is not only a sign of religious identification but, above all and anything else, a sign of contractual submission to a human organization, as question number two to which all JW baptism candidates reply YES implies?
Very hard to make the distinction and win a court case on it … to my opinion.
But, if you have the means, it is worth trying.Nick!
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New World Translation 2006 printing modifications Help needed.
by Nick! inwe are debating, on an italian forum, the changes made to the so called 2006 printing of the nwt.. it was discussed on this forum in this section:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/159931/1/new-revised-new-world-translation.
on page 3 of the discussion, aurelius indicated a site where the scans of the new printing were made available.. unfortunately, the scanned pictures are not available anymore on that site.. 1. first of all, has someone got the scans made available by aurelius, and if so, may i have a copy of it?.
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Nick!
Any chance someone can give the required HELP ?
Thanks!
Nick!
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New World Translation 2006 printing modifications Help needed.
by Nick! inwe are debating, on an italian forum, the changes made to the so called 2006 printing of the nwt.. it was discussed on this forum in this section:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/159931/1/new-revised-new-world-translation.
on page 3 of the discussion, aurelius indicated a site where the scans of the new printing were made available.. unfortunately, the scanned pictures are not available anymore on that site.. 1. first of all, has someone got the scans made available by aurelius, and if so, may i have a copy of it?.
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Nick!
We are debating, on an Italian forum, the changes made to the so called “2006 printing” of the NWT.
It was discussed on this forum in this section:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/159931/1/new-revised-New-World-Translation
on page 3 of the discussion, Aurelius indicated a site where the scans of the new Printing were made available.
Unfortunately, the scanned pictures are not available anymore on that site.
1. First of all, has someone got the scans made available by Aurelius, and if so, may I have a copy of it?
2. In addition to Aurelius scans, has anyone the scan of page 4 where, according to Gladering, the following sentence shows up:
“ "Some mechanical adjustments have been made on this printing" ”.
If so, may I have a scan of this page too, please?3. Has there been any other development on this subject, aside from the above discussion, or has the “news” died over one year ago of its natural death?
Thanks for your help.
Nick!
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226
Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.
by the research lady informer elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.
our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.
the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.
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Nick!
I have updated my website with the two conferences delivered by Barbara in Italy.
If you can spare a couple of hours, you can go through the 12 plus 9 YouTube links on my website, and listen to Barbara's conferences.Here is the link to the website:
www.jehovah-witnesses.infoI will continue to update the website as information and the selected documents are translated.
Will post here the latest news.
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226
Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.
by the research lady informer elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.
our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.
the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.
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Nick!
Connection confirmed!
Just a few words to confirm that yesterday’s speaker at the 6screens conference is actually myself, and that this is my nickname on this forum, whilst my actual name is “Roberto di Stefano”.
I was flattered to have been invited by Rick Fearon to speak at the conference today [it was 1 o’clock in the morning here in Europe]and happy to have shared briefly with those of you who were in attendance my personal experience.
I hope that now that the experience has been told from the horse mouth, what I consider the value-less debated on the reasons of my disfellowshipping cease.
I believe that it has more value, both, to us, ex-JW and to the Leadership of the WT, to understand why it is dangerous and counter-productive to start a witch-hunt against prominent ex-JW who only asked to be left alone!
It is one thing to have an ex-JW posting anonymously on a forum where, despite the value of his participation, the impact on those who know him or have known him in his prominent role in the Organization are near to zero, and another thing is for the same person to come out in the open.
Just think about Barbara’s contribution to the cause. Although Barbara’s intrinsic value was the same before and after she came out in the open, one has to agree that the damage she caused to this Organization has grown exponentially since she came out in the open.And this is true for anyone of us here on this forum and elsewhere who had a prominent role in the Organization.
On one hand, because those who have known us had an excellent opinion of our life-long demonstration of, fairness, truthfulness, loyalty, and knowledge of the Bible and of the teachings of the Organization and a dedication and just can’t resist, on account of their astonishment, curiosity and incredulity, wanting to know what has made us make this unthinkable decision to abandon “God’s Organization”;
On the other hand, because finally, being free to stand up for our position, we can engage in a larger and more powerful combat against this cult!There are obviously very good reasons why one makes the decision to remain anonymous, reasons which I don’t intend to discuss in this post. But when these disappear by themselves or, worse, when these are invalidated because of the stubborn persistence of the Organization to officially announce from the podium that you are not anymore a JW, then it is time to come out in the open and use your previous position and reputation as a prominent member of the Organization to fight back the same with all your capabilities and resources.
Coming back to my own specific case, Yes, I registered as an anonymous user of this forum with Nick! as nickname over two years ago. I have not been very active on this forum because my time has been spent on an Italian and, partially, on a French forum, also using a nickname.
Now that I have no reasons left to remain anonymous, I can finally put into operation the strategy I have long been working on during these last two years.
This is another aspect to take into account. Knowing that one day or another you will have to come out in the open, start preparing your official exit NOW! And work on making it as destructive as possible for the Organization!I will tell you more on my website, one of these days, about my experience, my strategy and the way I have implemented it. For the time being, my website is basically in Italian and French, but the English section is being developed and the day it will be launched, I will announce it on this forum.
The objective of my website is to collect and disseminate information on this destructive cult.
The aim is to concentrate on collecting and translating a selection of important documentation and experiences in different languages. I have already asked and received the OK to translate material made available by Barbara Anderson, Randy Watters, Alan Feuerbacher and others, which are in the process of being translated into Italian and French. Translators in other languages of the same material are welcome!To those of you who can read Italian and French could already link to my website where, for the time being, the only information is the preparation and the program of Barbara’s Anderson visit to Europe this last month, which I have organized since November of last year as one of the activities planned in my strategy.
The website is www.testimoni-di-gevoa.info , but I have also purchased the following domain names pointing to the same above website:
- English www.jehovah-witnesses.info - French www.temoins-de-jehovah.info - Spanish www.testigos-de-jehova.infoThe first thing I will publish is a résumé of Barbara’s trip to Europe, with the YouTube links to the two conferences held in Italy on the Pedophilia and the danger to associate with JW, which I have translated live into Italian.
More to come!
– Roberto alias Nick!
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WT to shut down printing operations in Madrid Bethel branch
by sir82 inoriginally posted about here:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/173648/1/sales-of-bethel-premises-and-transfer-of-millions-to-brooklyn.
...but i thought it deserved its own thread.. there is a letter from the madrid bethel branch to all spanish congregations posted here (written in spanish, of course):.
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Nick!
I have posted my English translation of the Madrid spanish letter at this link:
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Sales of Bethel premises and transfer of millions to Brooklyn ?
by Nick! insales of bethel premises and transfer of millions to brooklyn ?.
just heard a very surprising and unbelievable news which i want to share with you and ask whoever has the right connections higher up in the borg, if this kind of news can be double checked for reliability.. .
the source of the information is believed to be reliable as it seems to be intimately related to some officials of the branch.
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Nick!
Rebel8,
do you mean the traslation of the same Spanish letter I transalted yesterday?
It is up on this same page .... unless you post it somewhere else.If it is another letter, well would be interesting to read it ...
Nick!
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Sales of Bethel premises and transfer of millions to Brooklyn ?
by Nick! insales of bethel premises and transfer of millions to brooklyn ?.
just heard a very surprising and unbelievable news which i want to share with you and ask whoever has the right connections higher up in the borg, if this kind of news can be double checked for reliability.. .
the source of the information is believed to be reliable as it seems to be intimately related to some officials of the branch.
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Nick!
Hereafter, I am posting a tentative translation of the Spanish text of the letter sent by the Spanish branch to all the Spanish congregations, as displayed here > http://johnhenrykurtz.blogspot.com
Nick!
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Subject: Changes in activities at the Ajalvir (Madrid) Branch April 1, 2009
Dear Brothers,
The Governing Body has recently informed us that, after having analized the situation related to the European printing premises, have come to the decision to discontinue within a month the Spanish Branch activities of printing, warehousing and dispatching of publications to other countries.
Our brothers express their appreciations for the work done up to now in Spain, one of the four larest printing facilities in Europe, with these words: “During many years your Branch has sustained the Spanish as well as the worldwide activities, which has been enormously appreciated. The Govering Body is convinced that all this was possible only thanks to the blessings of Jehovah under the direction of the holy spirit over the Branch, as well as the Spanish brothers good will”.
Although we will not produce anymore magazines or any other publications in our Branch, we are confident that you will continue to give yourgenerouse support to the worldwide work, according to your possibilities.Our Branch will continue to care for the rest of the work – which all other branches will continue to do for their own territory -, that is to say the assistance to the congregations, the supervision of the activities of the traveling oversears, the regular and special pioniers, the organization of the assemblies and many other things. On the other hand, it is obvious that akk of this will require changes at the level of the Branch, changes which will be comunicated in due time. For the time being, this is what we can already say, but we are sure that you will appreciate these information.
As we continue united our activities, under the direction of the organization of God directed by his spirit, we send you our Christian love (Ez. 1:12-21; Mat.24:45-47).
Your brothers and collaborators,
Christian Witnesses of Jehovah.
Note to the coordinator of the Body of Elders: Please ensure that this letter be read to the congregation at the first Service Meeting. It should then be displayed on the announcement board. Thanks.
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Sales of Bethel premises and transfer of millions to Brooklyn ?
by Nick! insales of bethel premises and transfer of millions to brooklyn ?.
just heard a very surprising and unbelievable news which i want to share with you and ask whoever has the right connections higher up in the borg, if this kind of news can be double checked for reliability.. .
the source of the information is believed to be reliable as it seems to be intimately related to some officials of the branch.
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Nick!
After the rumors from the Italian Branch, and now this official communication from the Spanish Branch, new information comes from the Italian Branch that this move is real, that the Italian Branch has already stopped printing and that many volonteers had to leave the premises and go back to their respective congregations.
Nick!