That's interesting Lisa what you mention as the reason for her to get baptized. In the case of my son, being already 15 at the time was the desire to have privileges like passing the microphone. Other young kids who were already baptized were having the 'privileges', so he wanted too and got baptized. Sad, isn't it?
vivalavida
JoinedPosts by vivalavida
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26
My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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vivalavida
I think you're right because that's the time when they start anyway to question stuff. They question their parents authority, or any authority for that matter. It's just a matter of channeling it the right way. Providing guidance and the right tools. That's where books like De Bono's come into the picture.
VLV
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My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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vivalavida
Thanks mate, I just found it in german: Wie Kinder richtig denken lernen.
I'll definitely be getting it soon.
Cheers,
VLV
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My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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vivalavida
Well, it seems that the elders are increasing the pressure on him, since he's now a baptized male, but it does look like it's backfiring on them.
The whole thing with the 'worldly' family came about because there is a girl with whom, as he told me lastnight, he's in love with. Well, the thing is that he was again called by the elders because of this. They even had pictures of him and the girl in a social network similar to Facebook but only for school kids that is very popular in germany. His answer was, well, I love her.
Of course, he's just 16 and this is his first love, so I have to play my cards very carefully. But the way things are going, I do see an opened door of opportunity, to borrow a JW expression...
We'll see how the thing develops.
Black Sheep - Yes I myself love also the De Bono thinking out of the box techniques. But I never thought about passing it to him, great idea. Thanks
alanv - Sorry about your son. I'll try to do my best, but as stated, I have to be careful and not get overexcited.
VLV
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26
My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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vivalavida
Yes, that's something I was thinking about. Not too much, too fast.
One thing I told him was that in every situation there are two sides. I used the example of a courtroom, there is an accusing lawyer and a defending lawyer and that for the truth to come out, BOTH sides have to be listened to. Apparently that is also on the back of his mind.
On the other side, they managed to have him baptized in the last international convention here in germany. I found out 'after' the fact and now he understands why I was so mad. So I do need to find the point of balance.
The good thing is that he's very assertive. He actually told the elders flat out that he could not do what they were asking from him (to shun me)
Vivalavida
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My 16 year old son is starting to see the light
by vivalavida inon march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.
of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.
i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.
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vivalavida
On March this year (2009) I DAd myself from the JWs. Of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control. I don't write much here but I feel this is worth sharing.
One measure I took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the JWs standpoint, but that I would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.
One thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that I separated from my wife, with which I was having problems for a long time already. Of course, the belief that everything would be fixed in the New Order, when we were brought up to perfection, kept us together, but when that belief vanished in thin air there was absolutely no point of staying together. This, of course, caused a lot of grief and stress for my son. For almost 3 or 4 months after I separated from my wife, he wouldn't talk or call me. All the time I kept calling and texting him confirming my unconditional love to him.
One of the things I mentioned on that walk was that it would come a point when the elders would tell him that he should not talk to me or have anything to do with me. That turned out to be a very good idea.
Fast forward to october. He calls me and asks me for permission to go to a get together with a 'worldly' family with which he has a very good relationship. His mom wouldn't allow it. That was something he found wrong. He's allowed to go practically anywhere with witness families, but in this one case, just because it was a worldly family the answer was NO. So he came to me and I said YES, of course.
So he went and in the end it came out and he was approached by the elders who, among other things, told him DO NOT TALK TO YOUR DAD, it is not wise and showed him a couple of Bible texts.
That made him click and remember that conversation we had and he told me about it. After that we have had very interesting conversations about shunning and disfellowshipping. I'm really happy and hope that he's willing to open his mind and starts opening his mind and questioning things...
Vivalavida
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vivalavida
I once read a very interesting and highly well written book called "The airmen who wouldn't die".
It concerns itself with the afterlife of UK Pilots after the great war. Although it is, in my view, not the definitive answer to your question, it does provide with food for thought.
Take a look at this link, it is a small synopsis of the book http://paranormal.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_airmen_who_would_not_die. BTW, before it gets debunked without actually reading it, let me just assert that the book was written from the perspective of someone who did not believe but consider the facts so overwhelming that he had to present them.
vivalavida
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Oct.15th WT- " Wanna Be Jesus Friend? Have to Support the Faithful Slave"
by flipper inunder the study article " you are my friends " ( indicating jesus naturally by his quote ) the wt society makes it very clear that the only way to be jesus friend is to come through them or else you won't be approved by jesus or god.
translation : friendship with jesus = treating the " faithful slave " kindly = jesus approving you.
our jw relatives will be studying this in december at their meetings.. under the subheading on pg.
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vivalavida
That article is based on the words of Jesus at Matthew 25:35-40 where Jesus says that certain things have been done to him and that's why this people are being placed on his right side. These persons ask when did we do all that and Jesus says, well, you did it to my brothers and it's like if you did it to me personally.
Using this logic, the FDS are trying to get away with requesting BLIND OBEDIENCE from the rank and file members. However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, if you read those texts, this is what Jesus says would be done to his brothers that he will consider done to him:
- You fed them
- You gave them something to drink
- You received them
- You visited them in prison
- You dress them
NOWHERE is there something, not even an implication, of you OBEYED them, or of the fact that they were RULERS over the rest or anything. Actually the picture that Jesus painted is more of people in a disadvantageous position that are provided help, it actually sounds more like charity. Not people in a very advantageous position demanding. Also the acts of those on his right are only valid because they were VOLUNTARY, not requested or demanded.
So, in my eyes, even those texts do not provide enough support for all the claims and demands they are making. That, added to what Deutoronomy 18:20-22 which matter of factly applies to them, makes me have absolutely no respect, or fear, or desire to help them.
Great day,
vivalavida
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A Sincere Question to Non-US Citizens
by lost_light06 inwith all politics aside .
do you wish you had the freedom of an american (united states) ?
now please, dont confuse this wanting to be an american.
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vivalavida
Well, it depends on what you call freedom.
I have been in countries, in latinamerica for example, where, if you so desire, you can ride on the bed (I guess that's what it's called) of a pickup truck without the police saying anything. Or you can ride a motorcycle without wearing a helmet and the only problem is if you fall and kill yourself, but it's YOUR decision, not the law's.
On the other hand, I have been in europe in countries where you can walk naked on the street and it will not be a huge problem. I mean, it could be that you are admonished not to do it, but you will not be charged anything because there is no law against it. That's one type of freedom. I mean, people can walk on the street with a bottle (no paper bag) of beer and nobody would actually care. Drink on the train, subway, bus, tram, etc. no problem.
The same thing goes in terms of thinking. In most countries, even in the third world, if they are not ruled by a dictator or somebody with dictatorship aspirations, you actually have enough freedom and can think and say almost anything you want. I think the same goes for the US. In some places you actually have so much freedom that it can hurt. Because your neighbors ALSO have the same freedoms. Freedom to have a loud party in front of your house until the next morning when you have to get up early and work.
I mean, what is actually freedom? I think it is an illusion. NO COUNTRY has TOTAL freedom. They may have FREEDOM principles in their constitution but the reality shows a different story. You know, the SECURITY vs. FREEDOM issue is not only an american thing. It's a world thing. But it is something that REALLY affects people's lives and curtails their freedom in several ways.
Anyway, I am of the opinion that true freedom doesn't actually exist. In no country on this world. And it's getting worse!
My 2 cents!
Vivalavida
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Clothing in the New Order
by donny inthe society teaches that once the new order is up and running, we will achieve perfection as adam and eve once were.
if thats the case, why do they portray folks in the new order as fully clothed?
i thought clothing was the result of sin, so once sin is eliminated, should not clothing be also?
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vivalavida
I had once an interesting experience with 3 german elders. They invited me to the sauna. In germany, most saunas are mixed and the unwritten rule is that you 'have to be naked'. Shorts, swimwear, underwear, etc. is not allowed. Only a big towel, to impede direct skin contact with the wood.
We were in the locker room and suddenly a fully naked lady walked through to get to the open sauna area. She had absolutely nothing on (at the point neither did I). Immediately I looked at the 3 elders, they just smiled. We then went into the open sauna area (this was a big place with several saunas, you could go from one to the other or go to the different pools) where everybody was only equipped with a towel. A lot of them carried it on their shoulders. For them, including the elders, it was the most normal situation. I, having recently moved to germany from the states, was more than a little surprised and questioned them about the appropriateness ofbeing there. They said, this is sauna and this is the way it works. Do not worry.
Inside the saunas, everybody dropped the towels, and sat there, men and women, young and old, beautiful bodies and ugly ones, families and singles. I even had a conversation inside the sauna with a family, just like you do during little league with other spectators... nobody seemed to care about nakedness. For me it was a definitely liberating experience. You are probably thinking that it was a naturist club or something, well, it obviously was, but it was not advertised as such. It was just a big sauna! And most gyms offer exactly the same experience if you go to the sauna (except when they offer women's day or something).
My point? Nakedness varies by culture, and I am not talking about indigenous people in the amazon. It's like when Janet Jackson's dress malfunctioned, some of the news anchors in germany had to laugh on camera after presenting the news, wondering why such a big deal was being made in the states about it...
Vivalavida