Posts by vivalavida

43

What Actually Helped You Leave The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

after seeing some threads about how some think that being direct (like danny hazzard) is the best way to get people out of "the truth" or being very subtle is most effective----i was wondering what exactly made you leave the organization??.

were you more impressed by websites that were informational?

what really got you thinking to leave the religion and its mindset?.

vivalavida

In my case it was several things. About 10 years ago, I read on some website (don't remember what it was) about the Mexico/Malawi fiasco. The more I read, the more alarmed I was, until cognitive dissonance kicked in and I stopped. Even though the questions and scary thoughts lasted for months, eventually I was able to let my "wait on Jehovah" knob be cranked all the way up.

However, questions about several things and never cleared doubts kept nagging at me. For three years, about that time I was disfellowshipped while being a MS and had the common experience of thinking "well, if I'm going to die in Harmaggedon anyway, do as you please while you can". That lasted about 3 years and then I couldn't bear it anymore and went back, became an MS again and then an Elder. A week after my appointment as an Elder, the NBC news of child abuse and JWs came out. On top of that, the KM came out with that article about not reading other literature, not learning greek or hebrew and just reading the WTS information.

At that point a huge light bulb went on in my head. And the question "What are they trying to hide?" kept nagging at me. So, I gave myself permission to check everything about the organization's history, it's critics, read CoC and Christian Freedom and other books and discovered what was it that they were trying to hide and it was a huge lot!!! The rest is history.

Vivalavida!

53

Once a cheater, always a cheater

by Quillsky in

jw
friends

if you discover, while getting to know a potential partner, that they have cheated on a previous partner........ don't touch them.

run run run.. in my opinion a cheat remains a cheat.

opportunity is the variable.. please discuss..

vivalavida

I definitely do not believe it. Humans and human nature is not set on stone, they are constantly evolving and changing. Yes, sometimes the change is negative but a lot of times it can be defined as improvement.

I'd more likely agree with the contention that it depends on a series of factors, like opportunity, status of the relationship, commitment and personality. Hey, some people cannot stop themselves from eating that chocolate on the table, others, on the other hand, definitely can.

I believe that judging a person for whatever they did in the past, without giving an opportunity to show what they are made out of _now_, is like a form of prejudice, isn't it? Of course, this doesn't mean that one needs to go blindly at it. There are indeed cheaters that remain always cheaters.

Just my 2 cents

Vivalavida

24

"Worlds Apart" On SUNDANCE Channel in two hours!!!

by ziddina in

jw
friends

for those of you who haven't yet caught this movie or purchased a copy; "worlds apart", about a young swedish (?

) jehovah's witness girl who is disfellowshipped and subjected to shunning, starts at 8:30 p.m. eastern standard time on the sundance channel... [6:30 p.m. mountain standard - rocky mountain time...].

if you have cable that includes the sundance channel, you might be able to catch this movie - tell us what you think of it in the other thread titled "worlds apart" reviewed by an x-jw" that you can also find in the recent 'active' listing.... happy viewing!

vivalavida

I moved to Germany from Latin America about 7 years ago and remember the shock I had the first time I saw a full bearded elder conducting the Watchtower study. Yes, europeans have a much better attitude to beards.

I also know for a fact, from a very good friend in Sweden, who recently faded, that beards are absolutely a non-issue over there, as long as they looked groomed and clean.

Vivalavida

30

Why Aren't You At Least FAding?

by shamus100 in

jw
friends

it doesn't take much, just stop going.

you don't even have to do it all at once; maybe do one meeting a week for a month, then one meeting a month for two months, then just stop going.. what's going to happen?.

nothing.. getting a shepherding call... q: what's wrong brother twinkletoes?

vivalavida

I was in a very similar situation like miseryloveselders, I got appointed as an elder a couple of weeks before the light bulb went on which, in my case, was caused by the child abuse debacle. At the time, I didn't know whether to act or just to react, but it came to a point where I simply couldn't go on telling lies (lies to me because I didn't believe anymore) so I started asking questions. And the other elders sensed that something was amiss and really tried helping, but with their unlogical way of thinking it wasn't working, it was actually making it worse.

Then the situation at home where the wife was always accusing me of being an hypocrite and treating me like one. But not being willing to listen to my reasons. It all built up to the point where I had to resign and I did. Sent a letter resigning at a particular date. No explanation, no reason. Just I don't want to be an elder anymore. I think I attended the congregation for a month or so after that, and then just stopped, point blank. Of course, the hounders were trying to help, and were getting annoying, so I had to DA. That day, it all stopped.

Fast forward a year, still have a good relationship with my mom and brother, even though they both are 'loyal' JWs. And recently had to buy a airplane ticket for my son and it was all arranged by my ex. I was just supposed to pay, but I decided to call the travel agent, who is a brother, just to see how he would react. Hey, it was supposed to be a 'business' call, but it turned out to be a very nice 'we miss you' conversation where he stated that he's not buying the shunning thing the WTS preaches.

So, even though I lost most of my supposed 'friends', some of them let themselves be led by their hearts, the way it should be.

Basically what I want to say is that, as an elder, there comes a moment when you HAVE to make a move. There is no way around it!

Vivalavida

27

JWs and piracy (digital kind)

by teel in

i'd like to hear of other people's experience regarding the jws inclination to pirating software, music, films.. this of course is relative to your country.

because i live in a relatively poor country, the rate of piracy is extremely high, individuals practically never buy software, music and films are bought now and then.

this of course is against the law here too.. so what do jws do?

vivalavida

I agree 100% with the fact that the WTS doesn't care about piracy, except when it is its own products. If they did and knowint that, for example, the WTLibrary is used in a lot of third world countries and is considered, as read in another thread, as the "Holy Google", they would have long created an open source version of the program or, at least, a version that would run on Linux or another open source operating system.

The fact that it doesn't exist, forces a lot of them to steal the software. I remember when they changed the program and then it was 'required' to have Windows XP. Several brothers came to me wanting a copy of XP because it was necessary for the "Holy Google".

If there were an open source version, I bet lots of brothers would install it, because lots of them use their computers ONLY (at least that's how they portray it) to check the WTLibrary.

Vivalavida

34

"Is It Latter Than You Think" Article in Awake

by Leprechaun in

mary christmas - article in the awake i think it was 1969 or1968 there is a picture of two passenger jets flying into the world trade center buildings, now, what do you think of that.

now, that was some thirty years in advance, and a little more than coincidence.

what the hells up with that folks?

vivalavida

There is also in spanish a song by Ricardo Arjona that has some similarities to what happened in NYC. However, when asked about it, Arjona said, if you have read or watch the news and have a fairly normal brain, it should've been clear that something like this would eventually happen.

Here is an interesting link to the matter: http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa092401b.htm

VLV

26

My 16 year old son is starting to see the light

by vivalavida in

on march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.

of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.

i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.

vivalavida

Black Sheep - Thanks for the tip. I'll see how I will introduce it in our conversations somehow.

VLV

26

My 16 year old son is starting to see the light

by vivalavida in

on march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.

of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.

i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.

vivalavida

My girlfriends says exactly the same thing. He's a minor and they trying to walk all over my rights, the good thing though, is that he's very assertive. I just wanted to clarify that this situation was caused mainly by the elders, not by my ex. She actually does not have a problem with me seeing him as long as I don't go all 'apostate preaching' on him. However, I do mention Bible texts sometimes and show him how illogical some of the WTS application of texts are.

On the other hand, I always stress the fact that he has the right to know, not only one side of the story, but both.

Aussie, make sure you stress that you HAVE to be notified BEFORE he's getting baptized as long as he's a minor. In my case, they did all that behind my back thinking I'd oppose. I told my wife that I should have been told because that is supposed to be THE MOST important thing in his life (from her standpoint) and I wanted somehow to be part of it, that I felt betrayed and that it was worse than having him get married behind my back. She actually understood that point but it was already too late, he was already baptized and he has already told me that it was too soon, that he did it under pressure, pressure of getting privileges and so on.

Well anyway, I'll keep you all posted about what happens next.

Vivalivada

26

My 16 year old son is starting to see the light

by vivalavida in

on march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.

of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.

i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.

vivalavida

Well, what really got to them was that it came out that he came to me for permission in 'disobedience' to his mother. That's when they told him, he should stop all contact with me.

Of course, after that, obviously they have their eyes on him now, and have talked to him because he has a 'worldly' girlfriend (his first real girlfriend btw). So reports are that he was seen with her downtown, and pictures of him and the girl together were seen on that social network for school kids.

The good thing though, is that in both occasions, when told to shun me and when told to stop seeing the girl, he politely but firmly refused to do it. Of course, he's just 16 and i'm pretty sure this kind of pressure on him is just starting. Therefore it is very important to me to let him know and show him with facts that the world doesn't end if the elders are not happy with him. Of course, anything I do, is tried to be undone by the mother.

My goal is to give him as much tools as possible, the right kind of tools, and then let him make his decision. Of course, a 16 year old not necessarily can make the best decisions, but that's were my help is offered to him.

Hopefully it will all work out...

VLV

26

My 16 year old son is starting to see the light

by vivalavida in

on march this year (2009) i dad myself from the jws.

of course, it was nice to finally feel free, real free, after over 40 years of mind control.

i don't write much here but i feel this is worth sharing.. one measure i took before leaving was to take my then 15 year old son for a walk and explain to him that things would be different from the jws standpoint, but that i would always love him and that he could come to me at any time.. one thing that was very hard for me, is the fact that i separated from my wife, with which i was having problems for a long time already.

vivalavida

That's interesting Lisa what you mention as the reason for her to get baptized. In the case of my son, being already 15 at the time was the desire to have privileges like passing the microphone. Other young kids who were already baptized were having the 'privileges', so he wanted too and got baptized. Sad, isn't it?