Posts by middleman

6

Does anyone have a scan or PDF of the "Aid to Bible Understanding" 1971?

by middleman in

this quote is all i'm really looking for "and if "a word that is not even in the bible" is a criterion for what is true, then the *word* "jehovah" is not in the bible either, i.e.

in the original hebrew or greek, the word being invented by a rc monk in 1270ad" pg.884-885 .

<br><br>i've been trying to get this book on ebay and i've been out bid a few times, plus i don't see it on there much either.

middleman

This quote is all I'm really looking for "And if "a word that is not even in the bible" is a criterion for what is true, then the *word* "Jehovah" is not in the Bible either, i.e. in the original Hebrew or Greek, the word being invented by a RC monk in 1270AD" pg.884-885
<br><br>I've been trying to get this book on Ebay and I've been out bid a few times, plus I don't see it on there much either. If someone has the whole book on PDF that would be awesome, but pages 884-885 are all I need. Thanks for yalls help on this. Blessings.......

2

The Discoveries of Barbara Anderson in french

by chasson in

a friend of mine has made the traduction, if someone is interested to read it in french: .

http://www.tj-encyclopedie.org/barbara_anderson .

bye .

middleman

Thanks, but is there a way we can get it in English? Blessings......

58

Evolutions billion dollar question!

by Blackboo in

how did emotions evolved???

*grinning* are emotions, thinking, and morals biological?

please answer this sincere question..i am actually being nice this time.

middleman

Let me clarify to what I think is being brought up here. All animals DO have emotions based on nerves and "feelings" of their genetic makeup. However, what humans have unique compared to all animals is a moral response (decision) to right and wrong, opposed to animals of mere consequence of conditioned response due to circumstances brought up. If this is not true, then survival of the fittest among humans like animals, include killing cause I can and you can't stop me. We know this is not true with humans though we may be bigger and tougher than someone we may not like, we most likely "choose" out of conscience rather than response not to harm them. Once again if this is not true, then killing is not wrong and may the strong man win. Why merely blame him for the "survival of the fittest?"

26

Ok, lets set the record straight was it a CROSS or a STAKE

by Witchs Son in

and what would you say about the book often referenced by the society as a backing for the stake theory, the non-christian cross by j. d. parsons ?.

you can also download it here if you prefer.

i know that book was written in 19th century so i hope that won't be used as an argument against it after all sir isaac newton's principia was written in 1687 and we aren't holding that against it either.

middleman

Well, lets just say that historically the Romans did use a upright stake AND a cross beam as a means of punishment, that the JW's deny. I've seen various articles including watching the History channel that show this fact. The fact the JW's strongly refute this makes me believe that it is true. As a general rule (not always) I believe that when they refute a general Christian church's doctrine, they're are lobbying hard for people to unlearn a historical truth of the ages. That's my thoughts. Blessings.........

25

Anybody out there an Agnostic mentally but a Believer at Heart? (like me)

by Meeting Junkie No More in

first off, i no longer believe the bible to be the inspired word of god.

but with my heart i want to believe.

i love the idea of an all-powerful deity that cares for me and the rest of humanity.

middleman

No offense here but going from JW to Catholicism is jumping from frying pan into the fire. Study all of their pagan/satanic roots as I have and you'll see. Believe it or not they have a similar mindset to JW's in various aspects. One being that they believe they're the ONLY true church. The inquisitions of times past show this fact. They have toned that down in recent years to "blend" in. Why do you think the Vatican is the ONLY sovereign nation in the world? Another is the outward appearance of being holy (priests weiring "holy" garb etc)or sincere while these traditions of veneration of the pope, saints, and angels (for Catholics) and JW's submitting to the "anointed" keeps people from their "personal" relationship with Jesus. Only he alone is our mediator. "having a form of godliness but........." I'm not saying all Catholics are this way however. Many are unknowing of their history or TRUE doctrines just like JW's and really want to serve God, but they just lack certain info that the clergy is hiding from them......sound familiar? If certain knowledge got out, people would leave, therefore power and money lost. That's the main original reason why priests or bishops/priests couldn't marry. If they had kids back in the day, the kids would have an inheritance, so to keep the money in the church, marriage was done away with. So being forced to not marry, many priests developed perversions because of a stifled passion for love. I say this not to make one mad but to inform. If you have any questions on their history or teachings, I'll answer to the best of my ability. FYI, Most of my dad's side is Catholic and my gf was when I met her (she's from Spain) Blessings.....

3

YOUTUBERs help??!!

by middleman in

hey yall i need help with putting some videos up on youtube.

i timed my video and it was 9 minutes but when i tried to upload, it said that i exceeded the mpeg amount.

does anyone know what i'm doing wrong?

middleman

Hey yall I need help with putting some videos up on YouTube. I timed my video and it was 9 minutes but when I tried to upload, it said that I exceeded the MPEG amount. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? BTW, the video is in Real Player and it's 118 MB. Is there a way I can compress the video? Please help I'm totally lost here. Thanks. Blessings.....

13

Where do I find the numbers of the mass JW exodus cause of 1975?

by middleman in

hey yall, i'm looking to see what book/books that show the rapid decline of jw membership, cause of the failed 75 prediction.

i've read from different internet sources it was around 800,000 from the mid 70's to 1980. is there a particular jw book i can find this in?

maybe i could compare the mid 70's yearbooks?

middleman

Hey yall, I'm looking to see what book/books that show the rapid decline of JW membership, cause of the failed 75 prediction. I've read from different internet sources it was around 800,000 from the mid 70's to 1980. Is there a particular JW book I can find this in? Maybe I could compare the mid 70's yearbooks? Thanks for your help. This forum has very valuable information. Blessings...........

261

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

...in all fiction:jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevent bully.

", says richard dawkins in the god delusion p51.

he goes on to say, "those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror".. would you agree?.

middleman

C.D. you said.."Middleman: The Nephilim and all their descendants were destroyed in the global flood. (Remember that little incident in the OT?) Everyone after that was descended from Noah and his three sons according to OT, so the Cananites being descended from Nephilim is pure hogwash using only the Bible as your source."

Thank-you for your reply, I'll address what you said. To start off if you read further and study that there were in fact giants(offspring of the "sons of God") after the flood. Genesis 6:4 "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown"

in those days; and ALSO AFTER THAT

As for as using the Bible as my only source on this subject, this is only speculating. Read for yourself in the Book of Enoch, Josephus, Epic of Gilgamesh, etc. Greek, Norse, and other Mythology also ring down some of this ancient information. Now to be fair here, I wouldn't say that as a whole all mythology and their accounts happened however, there was something going on that compelled ancient civilizations of the world to write about. I can go into details later if you wish. Blessings.........

261

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

...in all fiction:jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevent bully.

", says richard dawkins in the god delusion p51.

he goes on to say, "those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror".. would you agree?.

middleman

I'm sure this post will probably get criticism, but I'm ok with it. The things I'm reading on this topic are/seem to be true at face value. God is angry, a mass murderer, a homo phoebe, etc. What's hard to see on such aspects and stories on God in the OT is the deeper meanings. One such topic is all of the Canaan conquests and "murders". I used to think why God wanted the "Hittites" and all the "ITES" ultimately destroyed, even the women and children! With much study you'll learn that those "giants" and "Anakim" were descendants of the fallen angels, yes the Nephilim. It was God's grace to wipe out the "walking dead.....rephaim" from perverting the blood lineage of man. Here's an article on it if you care to read further. http://stargods.org/MA_Giants.html

There's much more to be said on other OT topics/aspects of God, but for now this is all I'll write. If anyone has any questions or ideas they'd like to run across me, I'll do my best to answer. I will gladly discuss/debate these OT views on God, that are MORE than face value. Remember one last thing about the OT, man wasn't under the Grace period yet. It was the reconciliation of Jesus dying on the cross that changed the death/sin "contract". I will not deny that some things here look/sound weird, but it doesn't mean that we should give up and just judge from our "limited" understanding that probably will change in time(with an open mind). Blessings.....

6

My Essay....Is the Watchtower Org. A Prophet?

by middleman in

before i get into what im going to talk about today, id like to share a few quotes that im in agreement with.

error always seeks the dark, while truth is always enhanced by the light.

this found on pg.

middleman

Before I get into what I’m going to talk about today, I’d like to share a few quotes that I’m in agreement with. “Error always seeks the dark, while truth is always enhanced by the light. Error never desires to be investigated. Light always courts a thorough and complete investigation. Light and truth are synonymous.” This is from the “Millions Now Living Will Never Die“ book. Another I agree with is when C.T. Russell said “the sin of witchcraft is that people trust erring human judgment in preference to the infallible divine judgment”.

Also “We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.” —The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, 1968, Pg. 12

Now I ask this question…is the JW organization a prophet of any kind? A follow up question I have is are all TRUE prophets inspired? If not, where in the Bible is there an example of a TRUE non inspired prophet? These questions stem from my recent studies with a JW ex-elder and his understudy. I have many Watchtower books and magazines including some from the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I have come to learn that there are many discrepancies in many of the teachings taught in the past compared to what is believed as truth today. The ex-elder at first said there are no such contradictions at all until I’ve pointed them out in publications I have in my possession. So after some time, he and I have agreed that there are numerous teachings that are now considered “old light”. After this conclusion I’m told that “you know, the anointed aren’t inspired and nor do they claim to be”.

So I ask, if they’re not inspired and acknowledged as man’s opinions, then why does the organization strongly refute people’s claims of contradictions? If I told you my view on a Bible topic such as “who the sons of God in the old testament were“, and told you up front it was only my opinion, it would be accepted that yes it’s an interpretation and ONLY an opinion, so no harm done. On the other hand, the Watchtower organization has not done so in this manner when they write things such as

“These truths I present as God's mouthpiece. I admit to being the 'faithful and wise servant' foretold in Matthew 24”. (Watchtower 7/15/06, p.229, Watchtower 12/1/16.) and also
“God uses The Watch Tower to communicate to his people; it does not consist of men's opinions." - Watchtower 1/1/1942, page 5.

"….Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)

I’m told by many witnesses I’ve met including the ex-elder that they were in inspired in times past, and through research I’ve found the dates of 1914-1918. In the 1988 book “Revelation” we read on page 162 speaking of the “John” class with the scripture mention of Revelation 11:2 [read] with …“the holy city being trampled underfoot for 42 months”. To continue on it says, “As we shall see, the reference here is to the literal months (but not literally the number 2 of the witnesses) extending from October 1914 into 1918, when all professing Christians were put to test. On page 165 we read “ fittingly, the two witnesses are now seen to perform signs reminiscent of Moses and Elijah“, and they go on to quote Revelation 11:5. [read]. So lets say that the anointed are no longer considered inspired since the period of 1914-1918 has long since pasted.

I would like to focus on such a book that was written in 1917 called “The Finished Mystery”. This book surely fits in that time frame even though the anointed or “faithful and discreet slave” consisted of one man, CT Russell and later only JF Rutherford into the 1940’s until he passed away. In this book it’s easy to distinguish that Russell “knew” he was hearing straight from God when he writes on page Pg.544)…….

“Therefore, saith God, surely I am jealous over the reflections they cast upon Me, and at the mouths of many prophets have I foretold the destruction by anarchy of the rest of those who falsely profess My name and then help to desolate Christendom—the "Christian" infidels and all the former fleshly-minded Christians (Idumeans) who shall have presumed, with malicious Joy, to overthrow the order of things which bears My name—Christendom!”

(The Finished Mystery 1917 Pg.544). Also on page 380 we read “Truly, "mourning, lamentation and woe" were the burden of God's Prophet Ezekiel, as he foresaw the destruction of his beloved city, Jerusalem—and of Pastor Russell, as he foreknew the desolation of a world! Also in the book it’s said on

Pg. 334 “They only await the departure of the last of the Elijah(or John) class, In the spring of 1918“. This statement is also confirmed by Rutherford, he believed his spiritual information came exclusively from angels, namely because the holy spirit had ceased in 1918. You can read this in writings such as Preservation (1932). pp.201-203,[I have this book] WT 11/1/31. p.327 and WT Apr. 1,1934, p. 105

You can read "These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. No doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instruction on to the remnant." Vindication III, p. 250. 1932. [I have the book]

Consider also in the WT December 1, 1933, p. 364 it’s written "Some claiming to be fully devoted to Jehovah find it difficult to learn to be obedient to organization instructions...If you find it difficult to be in harmony with the organization instructions, that is sufficient reason for a careful self-examination to see what is your standing before the Lord....angels are delegated by the Lord to convey his instructions to the members of his organization on earth. Just how this is done is not necessary for us to understand."

So basing by these statements, there’s still inspired information being passed down to the organization from angels after 1918. Now fast forward to the Watch Tower’s writings on false prophesies. "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an `end to the world,' even announcing a specific date... The `end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.... Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them."

This is from Awake!, Oct. 8, 1968, p. 23. It’s interesting to note that THEY is being used here instead of US. After all, it was the society’s anointed class that wrote these publications. Using THEY takes all responsibilities and apologies away. Lets look at just a few of MANY of these false prophesies that are being talked of here.

"We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.(Jacob’s Trouble, meaning at the end of the Tribulation)" (Watchtower July 15, 1894, p 266)

On Pg. 286 of The Finished Mystery it says “For In one hour so great riches Is come to nought—In one short year, 1917-1918, the vast and complicated system of sectarianism reaches its zenith of power, only to be suddenly dashed into oblivion.” Referencing —Rev. 18:10.

On Pg. 485 of The Finished Mystery it writes“…Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall
come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of "Christianity." What’s interesting here is that the 1920’s version of this book has left out the mention of 1918.
Lastly in The Finished Mystery we read on pg 258 "And the mountains were not found. Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy."

In the 1920‘s book Millions Now Living Will Never Die on pg. 89-90 we read “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old”

In the (Watchtower Feb. 15, 1938 p. 54) we read (once again the organization using the word THEY) "They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class, and this made the proud "elective elder" crowd very mad."

In the (Watchtower Sept. 15, 1941, pg. 288) we read…."Receiving the gift, [Rutherford's book, Children] the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or play thing for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon."

In the (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, pg. 499) we read "'Adam Created At Close Of 'Sixth Day' Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then ? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand-year reign of Christ....It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.

We see here in the 1968 Watchtower are the words “are we to assume”, “possibly“, and “it may”, while at the same time using a definitive date of the battle of Armageddon, concerning the difference of weeks or months, not years. Now if I tell you that I may possibly, might, or potentially have stashed $1000 under my bed, to be given to the finder, later when I see you rummaging through my bed, would it be fair for me to call you overeager and say that you misunderstood my direct comment/suggestion on the amount and location of the money?

Also another re-occurring theme in “The Finished Mystery” are the words “present truth” being mentioned 51 times. As history has shown, many of these doctrines that were “present truth” later were replaced by “new light.” ”…as soon as the full number to complete the Body of Christ have been sealed with the “Present Truth“, persecution In a public way, and on an unprecedented scale, may be expected to begin almost immediately.” This found on Pg. 143

Little do most Witnesses know is that from many decades before 1914, it was taught that 1914 was to be the literal end of the world and not just the end of the world lease for the Gentiles.

This fact is echoed in the (Watchtower; Nov. 1, 1993; p. 12) by saying "Further, the widely circulated booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die presented the view that in 1925, God's purposes regarding the restoring of the earth to Paradise and the resurrecting of the faithful ones of old would begin to be fulfilled. ... The year 1925 came to its conclusion, but the end was not yet! Ever since the 1870's, Bible Students had been serving with a date in mind - first 1914, then 1925. Now they realized that they must serve for as long as Jehovah wishes."

Another statement I have regarding the Witnesses and prophesy, I’d like to say, is when Christians or others call attention to the false prophecies of the Watchtower organization. Whether they call themselves an inspired or "uninspired" prophet is irrelevant, considering they have acted as a prophet of God, based on their numerous writings on doctrine and specific dates of the end of the world.

There’s a known fact, numerous people have been ex-communicated on past doctrines, that are now considered old light. Has there ever been an attempt to apologize in the form of a letter or other measures to bring those with the apostate label back to the fold?

One last statement I saw published, that I absolutely agree with is “…false prophets do not admit to making mistakes." (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1972, p. 644) Indeed this magazine tells the story.