GinnyTosken

Joined

• started 33 topics
• posted 663 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by GinnyTosken

• 
  8

  Microphones - Elders respond to Comments

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i passed through wol site i saw a post on how to handle microphones.

  it was a pointless discussion about using cordless vs cord or a boom.

  wow ... big stuff.. it reminded me of a few times i ran the mics.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  If there's one thing about which I'm still angry and bitter, it's that I never got to be a microphone handler.

  If this opportunity had been available to girls, maybe I'd be Jenny Jones now instead of Ginny Tosken.

  Sob!
  Ginny
• 
  5

  Does the WTS hold to the truth in love?

  by CornerStone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was reading my bible this morning,(some of us still do :) ), and i came across these verses;.

  11he is the one who gave these gifts to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

  12their responsibility is to equip gods people to do his work and build up the church, the body of christ, 13until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of gods son that we will be mature and full grown in the lord, measuring up to the full stature of christ.. 14then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about what we believe because someone has told us something different or because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the truth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  CornerStone,

  I like the translation, especially:

  14Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about what we believe because someone has told us something different or because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the truth.

  That verse from Ephesians 4:14 so well describes the JW experience of flashing "new light" and "tacking into the wind." Here it is again from The New Oxford Annotated Bible:

  We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people's trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming.

  After I left the organization, I thought back over my whole experience. The first five years of my parents' association with the Jehovah's Witnesses seemed a very happy time. The structure and clear rules helped them stabilize their marriage. They made friends with people who were mostly decent, honest, and caring. When did things begin to turn sour? When did these beliefs become a burden?

  I think the organization works for people as long as they are in a childlike state. Jean Piaget and Lawrence Kohlberg studied the moral development of children. Piaget looked at how children develop moral reasoning. He found that young children have a much more primitive understanding of right and wrong behavior than do older children The work of Piaget and Kohlberg led to the discovery of three levels of moral development with two stages each:

  The first level is called Preconventional. During this level children are concerned with avoiding punishment (Stage 1: Punishment-Obedience) and getting one's own needs met (Stage 2: Individualism). This level and its stages fit into the framework of young children, up to the age of ten years.

  The second level is called Conventional. During this level children are more concerned with living up to the expectations of others (Stage 3: Interpersonal Conformity) and want to do the right thing because it is good for the group, family, or institution (Stage 4: Social System and Conscience). This level and its stages fit children over the age of ten years and on to adulthood.

  The third level is called Postconventional. During this level individuals govern their behavior by the relative values and opinions of the groups they live and interact with. Right behavior is based on a "social contract" (Stage 5: Social Contract and Individual Rights) with others and in the validity of universal moral principles (Stage 6: Universal/Ethical Principles) which may or may not agree with society's laws. Laws that agree with universal moral principles are obeyed but when those laws violate these principles, the individual follows the principles instead.

  For the most part, I believe that JWs obey to avoid punishment (both at Armageddon and by disfellowshipping). They are also concerned with the expectations of others and doing the right thing because it is good for the group. Once a JW matures beyond that stage and begins to ponder ethical principles, there is often trouble in paradise. The Watchtower of May 1, 1957 said, ". . . show our respect for Jehovah's organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God." Don't question Mama, because this mama doesn't ever want her babies to grow up and leave home.

  I find it interesting that the organization sees itself is this mother/wife role. In the "Our Sunday School Lesson" thread ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7925&page=4&site=3 ), I quoted from an article by Ze'ev Herzog which, among other things, said:

  And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.

  [bolding mine]

  It's rather ironic that the Watchtower Society has brought this consort back, setting themselves up as an Asherah of sorts. "Put faith in a victorious organization." (The Watchtower - March 1, 1979)

  I hope that Mama eventually comes to her senses and realizes we all just wanted and needed to become adults. Our leaving home was not intended as a personal affront to her. I hope she can change her ways and come to love and respect us as her adult children.

  Ginny
• 
  26

  Amish - JWs similiar problems

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  something to read,.

  i just found a site where david yoder describes the amish culture in great detail.

  it is fascinating to get an inside view of their world.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Amazing,

  I'm LOL at your "supporting false religion"! I'd better do some quick research and find out what religious leanings, if any, the children of Sam Walton have--I don't want to support false religion or atheism by shopping at Wal-mart!

  I hope you didn't stop at any yard sales on the way back. If you're not careful, you can pick up demonized items there, you know!

  Ginny
• 
  4

  Welcome to hell

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a classic and delightfully irreverant skit from rowan atkinson (shame on you if you know him only as mr bean!

  ) which ill be serving up for a little while for your listening enjoyment.. it seems perfectly appropriate to this gang.. http://members.home.com/aghull/devil.mp3.

  this skit always reminds me of how id wonder just what jehovah was going to do at armageddon to make sure 'all will know' just why theyre gettin the big brush-off.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  I agree, great link!

  I especially like the parts about Americans, Mormons, and athiests. Oh, yes, and Life of Brian!

  Cliff and Toby, tee hee!

  Thanks, Moxy!

  Ginny
• 
  26

  Tattoo You?

  by SixofNine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  don't take this as any kind of condemnation; it's just a question.

  i'm curious about what the tattooed among us think.

  why are you confident that you will be glad you have your tattoo ten or twenty years from now?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Six,

  Forgetting your love of puns, I read the story and kept looking for a picture. A sailor's tale . . . nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. I must protest that my backside is only wide enough for a short anecdote.

  Little Debbie
• 
  26

  Tattoo You?

  by SixofNine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  don't take this as any kind of condemnation; it's just a question.

  i'm curious about what the tattooed among us think.

  why are you confident that you will be glad you have your tattoo ten or twenty years from now?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Six,

  A sketch would be helpful. I have no idea what a "Sailor's Tail" is.

  Ginny
• 
  26

  Tattoo You?

  by SixofNine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  don't take this as any kind of condemnation; it's just a question.

  i'm curious about what the tattooed among us think.

  why are you confident that you will be glad you have your tattoo ten or twenty years from now?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Six,

  I have no tattoos, so I can't help you there.

  I've been longing to get a small scarlet letter "A" for about ten years now. It just seems so very naughty!

  Ginny
• 
  3

  Farting As To Victory!

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  should farting be a df'able offence?.

  should farting only be ok for consenting adults in private?.

  what about young bethel boys who have been know to darken a room so that their farts can be clearly observed once they have been lit, are they exhibitionists?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Should farting be a DF'able offence?

  Yes, if the farts are stinky and the noxious gases are released in the presence of others. The Bible says: "You must love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 22:39) Like smoking, such farts do not show love of one's neighbor and open up one's mind to demonic influence.

  Should farting only be OK for consenting adults in private?

  A fart is a mixture of gasses, mostly carbon dioxide, hydrogen and methane. Hydrogen and methane are highly flammable. The Bible says of Jehovah God: "With you is the source of life." (Psalm 36:9) So life is a divine gift. Consequently, we have no right to take that gift away from anyone or to show disrespect for life, including, of course, our own.—Genesis 9:5, 6.

  In ancient Israel, safety was a high priority in all aspects of life. For example, when a house was built, God's Law required that its roof—a place of considerable family activity—have a parapet. "You must also make a parapet for your roof, that you may not place bloodguilt upon your house because someone . . . might fall from it." (Deuteronomy 22:8) If someone fell because this safety law had not been observed, God held the owner responsible. Application of the loving principle embodied in this law would move true Christians to abstain from the unnecessary risks associated with farting.

  What about young Bethel boys who have been know to darken a room so that their farts can be clearly observed once they have been lit, are they exhibitionists?

  If the farts have been privately tested and shown to have only fractions of flammable gases and are odorless, such an activity is a matter of conscience. "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)

  Should farting be an all-male event from which sisters are excluded, and why are girlie farts so awful?

  Again, if the farts have been privately tested and shown to have only fractions of flammable gases and are odorless, such an activity is a matter of conscience. Sisters may expel such farts in the presence of brothers if they don a head covering while doing so.

  As was stated in The Watchtower, 12/15 1961, p. 767,

  (see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=4556&site=3#54080 )

  we can learn about nature and sex and farts from the bovine family of mammals, both wild and tame.

  Large herds of cattle, both male and female, wander over the plains feeding. The female of the species naturally craves more gas producing foods like cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, bran, beans, broccoli and cabbage to be in top condition to attract a male willing to engage in the breeding act. Afterwards she is contented and relaxed, and the end result is a fart.

  Do farts smell purely for the benefit of the deaf?

  What a loving provision from Jehovah to take into consideration the needs of ones disabled by the wages of man's sinful tendencies! We look forward to the time when the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped and the eyes of the blind shall be opened.

  Will there be farting after Armageddon?

  Yes. Isaiah 65:25 says, "The wolf and lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy..." With no carnivores and more herbivores, there will actually be more farting after Armageddon. What a blessing from Jehovah!
  
  Do the Anointed ones fart in Heaven?

  Anointed ones follow the example of their Heavenly Farter.

  Betty Bowers answers this question beautifully from her Louis Quinze desk:

  Dear Ms. Bowers:

  We are taught that we are created in God's image. Does this mean that God is just like us? If so, does this mean that God breaks wind?

  Wondering in Wichita Falls

  Dear Wondering:

  The Ladies of Landover Baptist's "Dawn Bible Study" yesterday involved a rather hot-tempered discussion about the Lord's Blessed Flatulence. We all know from Isaiah 16:11 that God's Flatulence sound like "harps." While we had some disagreement about whether it is an actual song or just random notes, we agreed to disagree, with most of us leaning heavily in favor of a little snippet from the, pardon the expression, third movement of Beethoven's 9th Symphony.

  Where we really broke into very heated disagreement was over the actual aroma of this Heavenly Flatulence. Regrettably, there is no guidance in the Bible in this regard. Sister Taffy is absolutely adamant that the Winds on High smell like fresh-baked pineapple upside-down cake. But I'm not so sure. I am quite certain, however, that Sister Suzzanna Beth's suggestion that it smells like Elizabeth Taylor's Black Diamonds is completely misguided. In the end, we compromised by deciding that the Lord's Fumes most likely evoke a rather musky potpourri aroma that would be rather oppressive on humid days.

  So Close To Jesus That Communion Is Like Leftovers,
  Betty Bowers

  from http://www.bettybowers.com/index.html

  Did the early congregation fart as much as JW's do today? If not, does this mean that JW's are not the right religion?

  Scholars diverge in their opinions on the amount of farting done by the first century congregation, so it is difficult to compare. However, the measure flowing into the toilets of Jehovah's chosen people has been a fine one, pressed down, shaken together, and overflowing, a tangible sign of heavenly approval.

  Sister Ginny

  P.S. Englishman, please give my warm regards to her Ladyship and your sons, Holiday Inn, Bike Shed, and Front Room Carpet.
• 
  18

  Do bethelites get social security?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering you know whether in bethel workers get credited with whats called in britian national insurance.. in britian you carnt miss six years of payment and expect a full goverment pension which isn't much anyway.also you cant claim full income support , sickness benifit or job seekers allowence if you have missed or underpaid you ni.. this came to mind as my wife worked for a company that didn't pay contributions for her .. when latter on she lost her job the goverment wouldn't pay her any job seekers allowance as no ni contributions were credited for that year.. so does bethel pay ni contributions for bethelites and circuit overseers and the like.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Blondie,

  I had the impression that the vow of poverty was a recent change. I was never a Bethelite, so I don't know for sure. I'm nosing around on the net, trying to find some of the posts from H2O in which we discussed the impact of the reorganization shortly after it occurred. Meanwhile, I did find an article in Christianity Today with a quote from Ray Franz. Perhaps he is only referring to how things changed in Germany:

  Franz added that in Germany, the government ordered the Witnesses to provide severance pay to staff members. "Now when people apply [to join the staff], they sign a vow of poverty, which frees [the WTBTS] from having to treat the person as an employee," he said.

  from http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/004/25.html

  Ginny
• 
  18

  Do bethelites get social security?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering you know whether in bethel workers get credited with whats called in britian national insurance.. in britian you carnt miss six years of payment and expect a full goverment pension which isn't much anyway.also you cant claim full income support , sickness benifit or job seekers allowence if you have missed or underpaid you ni.. this came to mind as my wife worked for a company that didn't pay contributions for her .. when latter on she lost her job the goverment wouldn't pay her any job seekers allowance as no ni contributions were credited for that year.. so does bethel pay ni contributions for bethelites and circuit overseers and the like.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  GinnyTosken

  I know that the Society's not paying into Social Security or pension funds was an issue in France and an accusation the Society addressed in one of their tracts.

  Apparently, not wanting to pay social security taxes and other taxes was one of the reasons the printing facility was moved from France to Englishman's "Best Country in the World." Here is a letter I found on the "Comments to the Friends" site:

  http://www.cftf.com/online/1998JulSepp12.html

  Dear Brother

  Please don't use my name. I'm still inside.

  In France too, like Germany, we have been encouraged to get registered on the voting list (excuse my so poor American) and to vote (blank, that is to say not putting a sheet in the envelope). (I speak of POLITICAL VOTING.)

  This week the congregation were adviced that the printing plant of France (just inaugurated) would be transfered to England because of the government who said the workers don't pay the charge for the retirement [fund?] and social security. (Difficult to explain to you.)

  Watch Tower is the same [as] international companies who put out workers to find cheaper ones in another country.

  What a shame.

  There is a big decrease in France this year (more than 2% since September).

  Please no name — God bless you
  France

  Since the recent reorganization of the corporations in Brooklyn, I believe that Bethel workers now take a vow of poverty. According to Social Security Publication 517, this exempts them from Social Security tax on their meager earnings. I would also assume that if they do not pay taxes on these earnings, they will not accrue credits toward a later social security pension while working at Bethel.

  http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/forms_pubs/pubs/p517toc.htm

  http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/forms_pubs/pubs/p51701.htm

  Ginny

  [Edited to correct "I would also also assume . . ."]