GinnyTosken

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Posts by GinnyTosken

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  6

  OM Book on-line?

  by Thirdson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a question: does anyone know if the om book (organized to accomplish our ministry) is available on line.

  i am particularly interested in the 80 questions and anything to do with elder ms qualifications.

  i lost mine several years ago when i stripped down my library to a small number of books and the cd-rom.. i'd be willing to buy a hard copy and cover the shipping costs if anyone has a spare.. thanks,.

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  GinnyTosken

  Thirdson,

  I have not seen the OM book online.

  You can buy a hard copy at Randy Watters' site:

  http://www.freeminds.org/sales/booksale.htm

  I'd be glad to scan a few pages from my copy if you're eager to get on with your research.

  Ginny
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  22

  Why Bad Beliefs Don't Die

  by CPiolo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you interested in why your rational arguments and reasoning, in addition to well documented information do little to sway the beliefs of true believers (family, friends, and loved ones), the reason as offered in the following article is survival.. http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html.

  offered humbly for your perusal,.

  cpiolo.

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  GinnyTosken

  Bringing this back to the top of "active view" for those who might have missed it first time around.

  Ginny
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  15

  Will we ever find the magic bullet.

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lets just face it humans are odd.. nearly all here are proof of it.. we were able at one time to believe so fully in an idea that we gave our lives to it , and now we dont.. although this subject has been discussed many times before it is something that frustrates me , big time.. well we all at one time thought we knew it all.

  the meaning of life the real history of human kind why we die why there is suffering and many more of lifes mysteries were plain and simple to us.. gradually came the realisation that things were not as we had thought.. what was once so obvious was now so obviously wrong.. so how do humans manage to believe fervently on issues that to others make no sense?.

  is there a magic explanation or piece of logic that can convince any witness with a functioning mind the error of their beliefs?.

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  GinnyTosken

  Sleepy,

  CPiolo posted a link to an article called "Why Bad Beliefs Don't Die" shortly before you joined the board:

  http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html

  The original thread is here:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7798&site=3

  Here is a small quote from the article:

  First, skeptics must not expect beliefs to change simply as the result of data or assuming that people are stupid because their beliefs don't change. They must avoid becoming critical or demeaning in response to the resilience of beliefs. People are not necessarily idiots just because their beliefs don't yield to new information. Data is always necessary, but it is rarely sufficient.
  
  Second, skeptics must learn to always discuss not just the specific topic addressed by the data, but also the implications that changing the related beliefs will have for the fundamental worldview and belief system of the affected individuals. Unfortunately, addressing belief systems is a much more complicated and daunting task than simply presenting contradictory evidence. Skeptics must discuss the meaning of their data in the face of the brain's need to maintain its belief system in order to maintain a sense of wholeness, consistency, and control in life. Skeptics must become adept at discussing issues of fundamental philosophies and the existential anxiety that is stirred up any time beliefs are challenged. The task is every bit as much philosophical and psychological as it is scientific and data-based.

  I agree with you and Radar--reasoning alone is generally not enough. The hearer/reader has to be emotionally ready and courageous enough to make a huge paradigm shift.

  Ginny
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  24

  Mr Dedalus, married man

  by dedalus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  foxy and i were married this sunday in a small ceremony before family & friends.

  yippie!.

  an observation: we hired a justice of the peace more or less at random from the phone book.

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  GinnyTosken

  Oh, dear! People marrying and being given in marriage--a sure sign that the end is near!

  Best wishes to both you and Foxy, Dedalus.

  Ginny
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  The Pagan Icon, Outhouses and Vindication

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the pagan icon.

  dear randy, .

  well we got that new computer we was talkin' about for about the last ten years or so.

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  GinnyTosken

  Thanks for sharing, Randy! I think Armaggedon Okies are my favorite part of bein' ex-JW, and I hadn't read these before.

  The outhouse story is especially poignant for me since my grandma tried to hide in the outhouse from the Witnesses when they came up the road. They musta thought at first it was a not-at-home 'cause they banged on the door to the outhouse and made Grandma come out.
  
  Ginny, goin' back to clickin' them pagan icons
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  53

  First Post Musings

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post and i must say that i have been lurking here from time to time and have been impressed with the content.

  back in college i visited the old h2o site many times and this is definitely superior.

  thanks to all for the rich content i've been enjoying.. my great mother was a witness making me a fourth generation.

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  GinnyTosken

  Hello, Perry,

  Do you write?

  Yes.

  Did you used to post on H2O years ago?

  Yes.

  but I still think you should have broken your own god-damn window when you were locked out of the apartment,

  So, why'd you break SixofNine's window, anyway? This sounds like the beginning of a good story.

  Ginny
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  11

  new guy

  by outonalimb in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as a new guy, i would like to tell you a little about myself.

  i joined.

  after lurking for several weeks.

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  GinnyTosken

  Hi, Outonalimb!

  I'm curious--were you ever a JW? If not, how did you happen to find this discussion board?

  Ginny
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  10

  Explaining 'Religion' To 5 Year Old

  by HesterPryne in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hope you all don't mind my barging in here like this..haven't posted for a long time.

  yes i am of the lurker class..lol.

  now what i a hoping you all can help me with:.

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  GinnyTosken

  Hi, Hester,

  I think Mommy is a bit confused about my posting reading suggestions for children and religion. Awhile back I posted about a book I would not recommend:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10059&site=3

  I did look around a bit on the net to see what I could find for an eight-year-old. I found a children's book list used by a Unitarian Universalist church:

  http://www.uua.org/re/reach/curriculum/our_chosen_faiths.html

  When I looked at some of these books on Amazon, I could also look at links to similar books customers had bought. Sacred Myths: Stories of World Religions by Marilyn McFarlane looks promising, and is offered at a special price with another book by Peggy Fletcher Stack called A World of Faith.

  With my own son, I first tried to expose him to a diversity of beliefs. Before he started school, his daycare provider was a Muslim woman. When he was very young, we lived in student housing and his two best friends were from India and Finland, so this helped in acquainting him with other cultures and beliefs. When he asked questions, I tried to be fair and present the answers as "Some people believe . . ."

  I think your using a book about Lakota Sioux is a wonderful idea! Once your granddaughter understands that there are many stories that try to explain the beginnings of the world, why things are as they are, and what happens to us when we die, she will be more apt to do some comparison shopping before she decides on a religious practice.

  Ginny
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  53

  First Post Musings

  by Perry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post and i must say that i have been lurking here from time to time and have been impressed with the content.

  back in college i visited the old h2o site many times and this is definitely superior.

  thanks to all for the rich content i've been enjoying.. my great mother was a witness making me a fourth generation.

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  GinnyTosken

  Hi, Perry!

  Your first post musings are very good reading.

  Sounds like you have the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and to suspend judgement until you get more info. Thats my definition of an educated person.

  Are you a fan of F. Scott Fitzgerald? He said:

  The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

  Your comments about legalism and family pretension reminded me of one of my favorite movies, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. In many ways it reminds me of my life as a JW and the struggle to face painful truth.

  Maggie describes a life of pretense with her husband, Brick:

  I'm not living with you. We occupy the same cage, that's all.

  Gooper and Mae could be a typical JWs, doing what they are told to do by "Big Daddy" and hoping for a reward:

  For him, it was always Brick, always. From the day he was born, he was always partial to Brick. Why? Big Daddy wanted me to become a lawyer. I became a lawyer. He said: 'Get married.' I got married. He said: 'Have kids.' I had kids. He said: 'Live in Memphis.' I lived in Memphis. Whatever he said: 'Do!' I did all right. I don't give a damn whether Big Daddy likes me or don't like me, or did or never did or will or will never. I've appealed for common decency and fair-play. Well, now I'm tellin' ya. I intend to protect my interests. I'm not a corporation lawyer for nothin'...

  Big Daddy at first thinks that mendacity is a necessary evil:

  Mendacity. What do you know about mendacity? I could write a book on it...Mendacity. Look at all the lies that I got to put up with. Pretenses. Hypocrisy. Pretendin' like I care for Big Mama, I haven't been able to stand that woman in forty years. Church! It bores me. But I go. And all those swindlin' lodges and social clubs and money-grabbin' auxiliaries. It's-it's got me on the number one sucker list. Boy, I've lived with mendacity. Now why can't you live with it? You've got to live with it. There's nothin' to live with but mendacity. Is there?

  Big Daddy changes:

  I'm not gonna stupify myself with that stuff. I wanna think clear. I wanna see everything and I wanna feel everything. I won't mind goin'. I've got the guts to die. What I want to know is, 'Have you got the guts to live?'

  I hate apologies, especially for the truth.

  I look forward to reading more of your musings.

  Ginny
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  17

  The Fight For What Is Right

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the fight for what is right.

  as i reviewed the events of last year, it brought me to the simple comment above.

  the thirty first of december will mark my one-year anniversary of no longer serving as an elder.

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  GinnyTosken

  “The person who went to the media has spoken against God.”

  Wow! The substitute circuit overseer didn't leave any doubt about how he viewed the Society, did he?

  Ginny