my father was rushed by ambulance from his rest home to st. marks hospital in salt lake city, utah friday, but i only just heard about it.
i received a call from the floor nurse and she told me he is not expected to live.
his lungs are filled fill up with fluid and are continuing to fill u with more fluid: he has pneumonia.
Doug,
Thank you for reminding me to appreciate my father and express my love to him while he is alive. I have never experienced the death of a person I love, so I can only try to imagine.
I admire you for your courage in loving deeply and expressing it, even though that love now increases the pain of saying goodbye.
You, too, are loved. Please remember that.
Gina
goodbye folks,.
i have no parting sigh to give, so take my parting smile, - landon.
my little sabbatical is over and i plough back into the real world next week.
When is your next sabbatical?
I will look forward to it.
Best wishes,
Ginny
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
Teejay,
I replied in a new thread, "To Teejay."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10869&site=3
Ginny
when did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you?
he was talking about food, clothing, shelter and supplication to the least of the brothers.
he could not be talking about anything else and here is why: could any human offer jesus spiritual food?
Teejay!
Fancy bumping into you on this thread! I've been patiently awaiting a reply from you on the "Thank You Ray Franz" thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=1125&page=3&site=3
In a post to Larc, you accused me of saying that you had no redeeming qualities and of lying. In case you missed my answer there, here it is again.
Ginny
----------
Teejay,
Norm, without ever engaging me even ONE TIME in one-on-one dialog, told me point blank that there was no hope for me, that I had no redeeming qualities. Ginny did the same, but only after she(?) called me a laughingstock for believing a lie she told.
We discussed this at length in the "I Gave My Word" thread, Teejay:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9870&site=3
You accused me there of saying that you had no redeeming qualities. I replied:
Please read my statement again, Teejay. I carefully worded it because I have never known anyone without some redeeming qualities. I also understand that there are facets of your personality others may know and love that I may not have seen on this board. I said, “I . . . patiently wait to see these redeeming qualities, but plainly stated, based on what I've seen of you on this board, you disgust me.”
You replied:
Again, I'm sorry for misreading/misquoting your words. My mistake. I can see your point. After rechecking, there's miles of difference between what I thought you said and what you actually said. I thought you said that I had "no redeeming qualities," . . . Yes, I can see the difference. Please excuse my confusion.
I also explained what you term my "lie" and why I consider you a laughingstock:
I said, “ . . .you took it [my joke] quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.” I am being quite candid and sincere. You did take my joke literally, and for those who have met me and know that I am very much a woman, it is funny that all this time you’ve been picturing me as a big mean hairy hoss. What makes it even more hilarious is that you persist and make a federal case out of it. Not even a photo could convince you. Ginny is the evil mistress of deception.
You replied:
I'm sorry that I mistook your joke as a truth instead of the joke it was. My mistake.
Even after all of this, you still persist with the "she(?)" stuff.
Is your memory so short, or are you deliberately trying to distort the truth? It is exactly this sort of behavior that disgusts me.
Ginny
[Edited to add a more complete quote about "redeeming qualities."]
----------
hello friends,.
since i have been a member of this forum since july, i have seen alot of posts by df'd or posts about disfellowshipping.
i just thought i would add my thoughts on the matter, for whatever it is worth.
I enjoyed Frenchy's case of the two cousins because I've experienced it in my family. Of the six people in my family, only my father and I were baptized. My mother and three sisters were not.
I sometimes attend the Memorial with my parents because it means a great deal to my father. My mother, a smoker, is greeted with open arms and warm greetings. One of my sisters, not exactly a bastion of unwedded celibacy, is also greeted warmly.
To make it a bit more interesting, I was baptized at age 11. I once asked the elders if I should be held accountable for a decision I made while so young. They told me that there was no way they could annul a baptism; however, I could get baptized again if I felt my earlier decision was not a mature one.
On these visits to the KH, I'd often ponder this situation. We all went to the same meetings and studied together. We all knew the rules. Yet, I was judged more harshly simply because I made a promise and tried.
I think Frenchy is right--this lesson is not lost on the young people in the congregation. I remember talking to my sisters about baptism. Their immediate response was, "But then you can get disfellowshipped."
Ginny
while traveling near tampa, florida i passed the "jehovah's witness assembly hall" and was struck by the fact that that must be where they make them.
gene spafford .
religion is the perfect justification for tyranny, because it doesn't require an ounce of reason or a shred of proof.
Selling eternal life is an unbeatable business, with no customers ever asking for their money back after the goods are not delivered."
--Victor J. Stenger
Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.
--Benny Hill
If . . . you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
--Catherine Aird
one thing i have always wondered is this.. in the new system everything will be shared by everybody right?.
how come witnesses don't share everything with each other now in order to prepare for this?.
how come rich witnesses don't help out poor witnesses so they can come to meetings?.
Joelbear,
It makes sense to me, especially if a religious group is trying to follow the example of the first century congregation, who "had all things in common." (Acts 2:44)
I think we should start right away! May I use your PT Cruiser for a date tonight?
Breathlessly awaiting your 1000th post,
Ginny
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
Teejay,
Norm, without ever engaging me even ONE TIME in one-on-one dialog, told me point blank that there was no hope for me, that I had no redeeming qualities. Ginny did the same, but only after she(?) called me a laughingstock for believing a lie she told.We discussed this at length in the "I Gave My Word" thread, Teejay:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9870&site=3
You accused me there of saying that you had no redeeming qualities. I replied:
Please read my statement again, Teejay. I carefully worded it because I have never known anyone without some redeeming qualities. I also understand that there are facets of your personality others may know and love that I may not have seen on this board. I said, “I . . . patiently wait to see these redeeming qualities, but plainly stated, based on what I've seen of you on this board, you disgust me.”You replied:
Again, I'm sorry for misreading/misquoting your words. My mistake. I can see your point. After rechecking, there's miles of difference between what I thought you said and what you actually said. I thought you said that I had "no redeeming qualities," . . . Yes, I can see the difference. Please excuse my confusion.I also explained what you term my "lie" and why I consider you a laughingstock:
I said, “ . . .you took it [my joke] quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.” I am being quite candid and sincere. You did take my joke literally, and for those who have met me and know that I am very much a woman, it is funny that all this time you’ve been picturing me as a big mean hairy hoss. What makes it even more hilarious is that you persist and make a federal case out of it. Not even a photo could convince you. Ginny is the evil mistress of deception.You replied:
I'm sorry that I mistook your joke as a truth instead of the joke it was. My mistake.Even after all of this, you still persist with the "she(?)" stuff.
Is your memory so short, or are you deliberately trying to distort the truth? It is exactly this sort of behavior that disgusts me.
Ginny
[Edited to add a more complete quote about "redeeming qualities."]
hello friends,.
since i have been a member of this forum since july, i have seen alot of posts by df'd or posts about disfellowshipping.
i just thought i would add my thoughts on the matter, for whatever it is worth.
I was DFed twice. The first time, I was 18. I felt adrift without the old structure and social group, went back to meetings soon afterwards, looked as remorseful as I could, and was reinstated.
When I began going back to meetings, I had no car, so I walked about two miles to the Kingdom Hall. After the Wednesday night meetings, it was a bit treacherous to walk back home in the dark along an unlighted highway. A kind-hearted sister picked me up one night and drove me home. She explained that she would have to ask the elders if it was okay for her to continue doing this. The elders judged it more fitting for an elder and his wife to give me a ride home after that. It was kind of them to give me a ride and certainly a chink in the JW DFing armor, but looking back it seems so strange that one would have to ask permission of church elders to do a kind act.
After about four years of being "good," I began to feel as though I were sleepwalking through my own life. I felt a restlessness I could not explain. I began secretly listening to Led Zeppelin in my car at high volume. Then I added a cigarette once in awhile. Eventually I had an affair with a man from Kentucky.
I immediately confessed to the elders. I wanted help. I wanted to talk about the restlessness and emptiness I felt. I wanted to know what was wrong with me, why I didn't feel Jehovah's spirit filling my life, even though I studied and prayed and tried. I trusted that if I were repentant, I would not be DFed.
I discovered with a jolt that repentance was not the prime issue. The big question was, 'Did I use birth control during my tryst with Kentucky man?' It was a Catch 22. If I had used birth control, my actions were premeditated. If I had not used birth control, I might be pregnant and bring shame on the congregation. Somehow delaying a decision until I could find out if I were pregnant was not an option.
No one asked why I had done this. It wasn't until years later that I figured it out myself. I thought then that sex was the price you paid for intimacy, a feeling of closeness, a feeling of being loved, even if it was temporary. I was hungry to feel loved.
I cried a lot during the meeting while a legal discussion went on around me. I was hurt and disappointed. Where was Jehovah's spirit? I thought he knew me and my heart? Did I truly deserve to be cast out? Was I deceived by a treacherous heart? I began to feel numb. I just wanted out. I wanted to escape.
After much discussion, one of the elders leaned over and rested his elbows on his knees, talking to me slowly, as if to a child. "If we do not disfellowship you, will you promise never to do this again?"
I thought about the question. I had already explained my religious situation to Kentucky man and did not plan to continue the liaison. I wanted to be good, I wanted to do what was right. But somehow a little smidgen of integrity welled up inside me. Should I make a promise I was not sure I could keep? What about my treacherous heart and sinful nature?
"Who of us can promise not to sin?" I answered. I explained I had no plans to continue my behavior. I just didn't want to make a false promise.
The elders conferred together privately, and I was disfellowshipped. One of the elders, one whom I had considered my friend, walked me out to my car. "It would have been okay if you hadn't gotten on a high horse about that promise," he said. I got into my car and drove home alone.
That was nearly 15 years ago.
I have sinced learned that the Bible is not a great source of sexual ethics. Still, I am drawn to Vitameatavegamin's plea for understanding and love:
It no longer is about the sin committed. That has probably faded in to the past. Yes, a person may be repentant for the sin committed. But ultimately, that has to come from within you. You need to understand WHY you were wrong. I have often wondered how much good DFing does for people with serious problems. I sometimes think maybe they need some extra love and concern to help them see their error. Jesus himself did this. Remember again what the word Christian means.
I craved love, concern, and understanding. I received legalism and judgement.
Ginny
i thought it would be interesting for people to just post a few things about themselves so we can get to know each other just a bit.. try posting 10 facts about your life.. joel.
1. i was born and raised in south georgia.. 2. my favorite subject in school was math.. 3. i was in the fulltime service (bethel and pioneer) for 4 years.. 4. my favorite color is blue.. 5. mitch and i have been together over 12 years.. 6. we live in a suburb of atlanta georgia.. 7. we love to eat out and have friends over for dinner and board games.. 8. the only sport i was ever any good at is tennis.. 9. my favorite tv show of all time is the simpsons.. 10. we are both naturists and wish we could lay on the beach naked every day.
Larc,
Quiz question: There are five people in a family. Three of the five are first born. How could that be?
Father, mother, and eldest child.
Shaneliza,
A kinder, gentler Scarlett, eh? Perhaps Scarlett after she realized she loved Rhett?
Have you read the book? I like the family history and how it explains Scarlett's divided personality--wanting to be a great lady like her mother but having the earthy, lusty Irish blood of her father, too.
I'm not sure who I'd be. As a JW, I wanted most to be like Melanie, long-suffering, kind, self-sacrificing, trusting to almost the point of naivete. As I grew older, I identified more with Scarlett and her struggle to survive and take care of those around her. Some days I feel like Mammy, "It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'!" Other days I feel like Prissy. I love Butterfly McQueen in that role. "Just a few more days for to tote the weary load . . ."
My father censored my reading like a hawk. He raked me over the coals after finding The Vicar of Wakefield in my bedroom closet. A school chum had loaned it to me, and it looked boring, so I hadn't read it. According to Dad, it was rather risque. Even his backhanded recommendation couldn't induce me to read it.
Always remember, parents--if there are classic novels you want your children to read, put them on a high shelf in a dim corner and grimly warn them that these books are obscene and were once banned. Did you know that an illustrated edition of "Little Red Riding Hood" was banned in two California school districts in 1989? Following the original story from Grimm's Fairy Tales, the book shows the heroine taking food and wine to her grandmother.
Because Gone With the Wind was an old book, it somehow escaped the censor. I picked it up one summer in sheer boredom and soon found myself devouring it. I was only 12, and boy, did I learn a lot! I still remember the naughty horror of reading Rhett's offer that Scarlett be his mistress and her answer, "What would I get out of that except a passel of brats?" I looked up from the page and around at my family in amazement that this book had gotten past Dad.
Ginny
