DT

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Posts by DT

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  11

  Questions about video/audio recording of meetings

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking it might be beneficial for people who are facing disfellowshipping or disassociation to get some kind of recording of the announcement that they are no longer one of jehovah's witnesses.

  it could possibly be used as evidence in a lawsuit.

  (i know that's next to impossible in the current legal climate, but that could change in the future.

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  DT

  Here's the link. It's well worth a visit.

  http://deathorobedience.blogspot.com/
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  8

  Do Christians Still Own The J.W Periphery?

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the essay below was written by mick on ronnie's board.

  it has been up for a couple of months, but it is so good, i obtained his permission to paste it here.

  it is among my favorite top 2 or 3 essay's i have ever seen on in the ex jw cyber world.... i hope you enjoy it.... atjeff.

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  DT

  That's a brilliant essay. I think many fundamentalists have done Jehovah's Witnesses a great disservice by caring more about advancing their own theology (and often appearing crazy in the process) rather than showing the love needed to free Witnesses from the cult and allowing them to choose their own path.
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  11

  Questions about video/audio recording of meetings

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking it might be beneficial for people who are facing disfellowshipping or disassociation to get some kind of recording of the announcement that they are no longer one of jehovah's witnesses.

  it could possibly be used as evidence in a lawsuit.

  (i know that's next to impossible in the current legal climate, but that could change in the future.

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  DT

  Thanks for your comments. I'll respond individually.

  Snoozy,

  You're right. It would be a double standard if they only allow some recordings. They have been making recordings for years. It would make them seem very secretive and cultish if they start preventing recordings.

  Stillin,

  I think it's funny that they will have special campaigns to invite the public to their assemblies and then try to prevent video clips from appearing on the Internet.

  I wish I had a recording of the announcement that I'm no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It would be proof that I'm no longer associated with that cult.

  Black Sheep,

  I've also never heard of anything that bans recordings, except for in a JC. It will be interesting to see if they start to change their policies. It probably wouldn't do much good because its so easy to record secretly now.

  Iknowall558,

  I think it's great that have you have these recordings. The blog is brilliant. It's about time that the elders face some social accountability for their lies and inhuman treatment of others.

  Wobble,

  "As to recording anything, I think that morally this is O.K ( I just hope Reniaa dosn't jump on this thread and start moralising, that would be so sickening) as they should have nothing to fear if what they are doing is Bible based and following the example of Christ.

  Of course the fact they want no record of proceedings speaks for itself. What a kangaroo court ! NO defense, no friend of the accused even ,and no record apart from their own !"

  I heartily agree.
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  11

  Questions about video/audio recording of meetings

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking it might be beneficial for people who are facing disfellowshipping or disassociation to get some kind of recording of the announcement that they are no longer one of jehovah's witnesses.

  it could possibly be used as evidence in a lawsuit.

  (i know that's next to impossible in the current legal climate, but that could change in the future.

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  DT

  I was thinking it might be beneficial for people who are facing disfellowshipping or disassociation to get some kind of recording of the announcement that they are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It could possibly be used as evidence in a lawsuit. (I know that's next to impossible in the current legal climate, but that could change in the future.) It would be proof of the person's status. (I know from personal experience that the Watchtower Society and the local congregation are unwilling to comment on the status of a former member. Perhaps
  they are afraid of lawsuits.) It could also be used to counteract the enormous social pressure that the Watchtower Society uses to silence dissent.

  Suppose these recordings were made available online with as much personal information given about the speaker as is allowed by law. Details could be given about the disfellowshipping arrangement and the extreme psychological damage it causes, including broken families and even suicide. It could be pointed out that the person giving the announcement is responsible for perpetuating this practice. It's not fair to say that he is just following orders. He is delivering the statement publicly and is morally responsible for the consequences.

  It would be interesting to see what neighbors, coworkers, and unbelieving relatives would think when they see the person enforcing a barbaric, cultic form of mind control. They might start to exert some social pressure on the person making that announcement. This might be somewhat intense, but it is likely to only be a fraction of what the disfellowshipped person is experiencing. The Watchtower Society and its representatives would finally get a small taste of the kind of social pressure that they impose on others.

  Can anyone comment on the legal consequences of this kind of recording? I assume the elders might try to remove someone from the hall that they think might make a recording like this. Would they have a legal right to do so in this case, or could it be argued that the person about to be disfellowshipped has a right to collect this evidence, provided that he doesn't cause a disturbance. Would there be any obstacle to making this recording secretly? I should point out that the meetings are open to the public and therefore any announcement of this type is made to the public
  and can't be considered a completely internal matter. It would seem very odd to me if someone can make a public announcement about an individual without that individual having the right to record that statement and provide his own commentary on a public forum. I welcome your thoughts and comments.
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  3

  Scribd and Apostates

  by DT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone here use scribd?

  http://www.scribd.com/ it appears to be a pretty cool site.

  i like the way you can embed the documents into your own site or blog.

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  DT

  Does anyone here use Scribd? http://www.scribd.com/ It appears to be a pretty cool site. I like the way you can embed the documents into your own site or blog. I also like the way I can find better and deeper information in these online books and documents than I can often find in traditional websites.

  Do you think Scribd will become a major boon to apostates, kind of like Youtube? I think it has that potential. This might be a great place to post older Watchtower publications. Can anyone advise us on which publications have expired copyrights? If we got a lot of older Watchtower publication on Scribd it would be very easy to embed them on blogs, either as a collection or as a supplement to existing information. I bet a lot of Witnesses would download these publications on Scribd and would be very surprised at what they read.

  This could also be a good resource for apostates who would like to get some of their thoughts on line, but might not want to start a blog or website. They could just post as many or as few of their articles as they want on Scribd. If they let us know about it, some of the bloggers here might embed them on their own sites. I think it could be very useful. Are any of you as optimistic about this site as I am?
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  15

  e-mail news media-expose Michael Jackson's Jehovah's Witness connection

  by koolaid-man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the news media seems to be reluctant in bringing up the fact of michael jackson's involvement with jehovah's witnesses.

  the public deserves to know the adverse influence the witness belief system imposes on people.

  the watchtower organization seemed to instill much fear into michael jackson as you can read in the following e-mail being sent to news agencies.

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  DT

  I think the email brings up some good questions and valid points. I hope the traditional media pays more attention to this.

  I know you and your site get a lot of criticism. I personally found your site to be very useful in my deconversion. Others don't like it and that's fine. It gives the impression of a classic "apostate site" as many Witnesses imagine it. It may turn some people off, but these same people might then be less cautious of other critical sites that seem more innocent and less like the stereotype they have in mind.
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  9

  Christians Bringing Guns to Church

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wonder if they eventually plan to use atheists and other non-conformists as target practice?.

  wwjd?.

  also, notice the "snake on the pole" in the pic.. has the snake on a pole taken the place of the crucifix?.

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  DT

  I think the carrying of unloaded guns into church is a fitting symbol. The unloaded guns give the appearance of power but can't actually accomplish anything. It's all for show. The same is true of many religious people (I'm not saying all) who advertise their faith and self righteousness without bringing any benefit to society.
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  13

  Committee for Class action Lawsuit

  by lettib74 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  currently i'm in the process of setting up a committee of about 5-10 people for the class action lawsuit.

  this committee with be the decision makers for the group as a whole.

  once i have this committee established i hope to move forward with our cause.. .

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  DT

  I wish you the best. We need people who continue to probe for weaknesses and vulnerabilities in the Watchtower Society.

  However, I'm confused by your strategy. I would be delighted if I'm mistaken, but I'm not sure that a class action lawsuit is a productive step at this time. It seems to me that a class action lawsuit involves much more work, but can be dismissed just as easily as single case, perhaps even easier because the court is likely to look at the basic factors that the group has in common rather than the exceptional circumstances of individuals.

  I don't think a class action lawsuit is likely to succeed until certain precedents are established. I would think it would be more effective to try to establish these precedents with a single case that is very strong. I like what you are doing and don't want to discourage you. It's good that you have formed a committee. It just might be more productive to choose your best case from the group and support that person. It would be a difficult process and the person could really benefit from the help. If they succeed, a class action lawsuit might then be practical. If not, then at least there was a much smaller investment. Please remember that I'm not qualified to give legal advice. If I'm mistaken in my assumptions or reasoning, I hope someone will let me know.

  I suspect that a case like this might have a chance of success. Someone is baptised as a minor before the change in baptism questions. Later, the baptism questions change and the person is disfellowshipped while still a minor. The individual can establish significant harm and show that the shunning involved family and perhaps that alienation of parental affection. I think a court would have some trouble justifying throwing the case out without a hearing because of the human right issues that conflict the assumption that an organisation can practice religion without interference.

  I want to say something about shunning. In my opinion, shunning is a basic right and should be protected. No one can or should be forced to not shun someone. I don't think this is a defense of Watchtower policies. The question isn't whether members have the right to shun people. The question is whether the Watchtower society has the right to use it's massive resources, threats, and deception to enforce shunning on individuals. If shunning is a right, then free association should also be a right.

  I believe the Watchtower Society is using unlawful means to inhibit this right of free association. Suppose Bill Gates has a grudge against me. That's fine. He has the right to avoid and shun me. It would be crazy to think of suing him or even the entire Gates family if they share his opinion of me. If, however, he starts to slander me in the media and threatens any of his employees with termination if they talk to me or even say hi, then I probably have cause to sue and go after a sizable portion of his assets. The employees would probably also have a good case for suing. The Watchtower Society is a bully and is using an unfair advantage to trample the rights of those who are shunned or are currently members and should have the right to associate freely with friends and family without undue interference.
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  10

  How to get this Forum/website higher up the Google search rankings?

  by ThomasCovenant in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  are there any ways we can increase the google search position for this site by the way we access it?.

  (i'm definitely not computer / tinternet savvy.).

  i haven't got this site stored in bookmarks/favourites.

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  DT

  This is an important topic. I would love to see this site and others like Freeminds and JW Facts get more traffic and better search results. I agree with Cognac's suggestion about linking from other sites. There are a lot of EXJW blogs popping up and they can have a huge impact on increasing traffic to each other and the more established sites. This can be as valuable as the information they contain.

  Thanks for you suggestions, Ruddy. I sent you a PM.
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  6

  StumbleUpon, Digg, Technorati, Delicious & Twitter

  by besty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  are there any regular <daily> users of the above sites that would like to help with a project?.

  thanks in advance.

  paul m. .

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  DT

  I might be interested. I'll send you a PM.