Interesting. I think this would affect other cults fishing the same waters (Mormons, scientologists, moonies, etc)
Do you have a link to the article?
FormerMormon
JoinedPosts by FormerMormon
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88
British Sociologist Predicts Possible Collapse in Jehovah's Witness Numbers
by slimboyfat ina newly published article by british sociologist david voas argues jehovah's witnesses may be about to experience a collapse in numbers.
contrary to claims by american sociologist rodney stark who predicts strong future growth for jehovah's witnesses, voas shows that jehovah's witnesses' efforts at recruiting new members have become increasingly unsuccessful over the past few decades: the rate of increase has steadily declined, and the number of hours each publisher must preach to produce an extra convert has gone up substantially.
voas suggests a reason for the stagnation may be that there is a natural limit to the number of people in a given population that are susceptible to conversion to sectarian groups like jehovah's witnesses - the 'carrying capacity' of the population, and that the limit has largely been reached.
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Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication
by undercover inwho saw big love last night?.
...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.
i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?
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FormerMormon
Alamb,
There is a difference in treatment, depending on why someone has been exed or disfellowshipped. If someone is exed or disfellowshipped for sin, then yes, church members will turn on the judgement, leverage, guilt and shame to get you back in line again. If someone is SUSPECTED of harboring doubts in belief, or leaves for disbelief, they are shunned.
I hope that clarifies things.
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Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication
by undercover inwho saw big love last night?.
...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.
i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?
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FormerMormon
Doubing bro,
There isn't any formal "shunning" that is ordered for errant Mormons. It's an informal, assumed and indirectly obeyed shunning. It just happens. We are technically still on the books for a few more months (we will be resigning). Having publicly expressed doubts, our family communications have shriveled to next to nothing. Church leadership does actively prohibit members from speaking with former or disgruntled members. It is question #7 in the temple recommend interview. They don't tell you to shun doubters, but if you want that recommend, and if you believe the scary things they tell you about doubters, you will shun them.
I need to correct something I said earlier, maybe in another thread. In my family, it would be inconcievable that anyone would help you sneek into the temple. That's true for my family. MANY other exmo's are reporting instances where family members did bend the rules and sneek people in.
I stand corrected.
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Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication
by undercover inwho saw big love last night?.
...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.
i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?
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FormerMormon
Humble Yourself--
You may pick on minor details that don't mirror your experiences as a juror in a Mormon court of love. A small difference is that they would have dismissed Barb, and discussed amongst themselves before readmitting her to inform her of their decision. So they took a little bit of theatrical license. Big whoopdee. You can't deny that ecclesiastical abuse is happening in the Morg. You also can't deny that the Temple rites are a changing freak show. I mimed slitting my throat and belly starting in 1985. I KNOW HOW FREAKISH AND DISTURBING IT ALL IS. Further, the Morg excommunicates people for reasons that the rest of the world finds very disturbing.
This episode is merely exposing the uncomfortable cognitive dissonance members have about the temple.
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FormerMormon
Irkr,
Just over 20 years agao, there was the Mark Hoffman affair. He was a PISSED disgruntled member (somehow the prophets didn't detect his hatred for his church). Hoffman was a antiquities dealer. He recognized the sham. He did sell some real letters to the church and some of its leading members. He also forged some very damaging letters that would put the church in a very bad light. Unfortunately for the church, the forged and untrue letters were very believable, as Joe was such a stupid ass who could run off at the mouth. So these prophets started buying these incriminating forgeries off Hoffman and stashing them in their vaults with the rest of the damning evidence. (It's interesting to read about the disgruntled church historians who have had access to hidden church documents like these. Some have left the church, others get really pissed and get dismissed from church service. Others leak damning evidence like William Claytons Journals (Horny Joe's secretary who detailed his shenanigans).
Anyway, Hoffman's forgeries began to unravel and he began pipe bombing people trying to keep it from spinning out of control. One of his pipe bombs blew up early injuring Hoffman. He was convicted and sent to jail. Exmo's LOVE pictures of him showing/selling forgeries to "the prophet" and some "Apostles". (Hoffman on far left)
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Big Love - temple scene and Barb's excommunication
by undercover inwho saw big love last night?.
...and here i thought jws were fucked up.... the whole temple thing was just surreal.
i've always liked barber's adagio, but that music made it even creepier.... jws got nuthin on their temples and ceremonies.... jws are cult lite compared to that shit.... but.... the disciplinary meeting that barb went to with the elders...how deja vu was that?
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FormerMormon
Undercover said...
...and here I thought JWs were fucked up...
I represent that statement!!
As I mentioned in the other thread, there is no 15 minute allotment. Sometimes they will ask you to take the time you need, but to be respectful and make room for incoming patrons.
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FormerMormon
Temple divorce is possible, but requires authorization from the chief asshole hisself (the profit)
Rebel, I'm sorry, I see the confusion. Regular members are one thing. Missionaries are another. Regular members have internet. Missionaries are not allowed the web, except for email. There's too much truth and opportunities to face it out there. That two year forces you to turn your mind off. You hear the accusations door to door, but you are NOT allowed to read any of the relavent information. As a missionary, you can't use the internet for that. You can't look at unauthorized books, even church books (history).
I haven't seen this. It would be highly disturbing for any member to help another sneak in without a valid recommend. That part is unbelievable, and not well scripted. --This goes doubly so when in an antigonistic relationship with a full throttle robot like Cindy. A believing robot would think they were corrupting the holy of holies, and that the spirit would tell some temple worker "Barb isn't worthy and doesn't belong here"(supposed revelation and all). I have never heard of a 15 minute limitation in the Celestial room.
Church records indicate when someone is baptized, ordained, offices held, when someone is endowed and get their magic jesus jammies, etc If Barb never went thru the RIGHT and authorized hoops to get her magic underwear, then how would they think to ask her about wearing her garments? As far as the excommunicating leaders knew, she had never got her garments. Why would they ask about that if they thought she had never recieved them??
The chat on exmo websites otherwise indicates it was very accurate
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FormerMormon
REbel
Mormons think that technology and many other things are brought about to further "the work". Especially years ago, it was speculated that the internet would help us spread the word. As it turned out, quite the opposite has happened. Mormons aren't against the internet per se. They are against anything that challenges the cults POV. There aren't restrictions on ISP's or internet filters like the Scientologists (so I have heard).
Damn I wish I had HBO. I heard SNL did something on the HBO/Mormon controversy last night. ANyone see it?
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Introvert or Extrovert
by FormerMormon inon exmo sites, we have done polls.
people who leave the lds cult lean heavily to the introverted side.
i suspect many extroverts have too much to lose socially to allow themselves to think.
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FormerMormon
On exmo sites, we have done polls. People who leave the LDS cult lean heavily to the introverted side. I suspect many extroverts have too much to lose socially to allow themselves to think. Too much to lose. My wife and I are definitely intro perverts.
Are most of you extro or intro or have you discussed this already?
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If Israel is nuked off the map by Iran ...
by sacolton inwould that mean the bible isn't true?
israel plays a very important part to fulfill prophecy.
your thoughts?.
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FormerMormon
If it were destroyed, there would have to lots of 'splainin to do to the confused mass of Mormons, Evangelicals, pentacostals. I'm guessing JW's also teach that the gathering of Israel is some fulfillment of prophecy.
They'll say: "Maybe we just need to wait ANOTHER 2000 years for another Israel to be reborn that could usher in the second cumming." 4000 years maybe??