notyetx

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Posts by notyetx

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  60

  Feb. 1 mass calling campaign. Will you call?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if it was mentiopned.

  but i think that we are talking about not just one call from each person, but we are talking about spending a good length of time calling repeatedly.

  othrwise it just won't have much of an impact.

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  notyetx

  Dear Shawn,

  "Doing" is a good thing. But doing it well is what is needed now. Action misdirected and misapplied often turns on the actor.

  Education, both passive and active, is what JWs need most. They need dispassionately presented incontrovertible facts. Phone jamming is just not a good idea for legal and tactical reasons.

  Educate by coming up with a clever video or writing and publishing a great essay. Give public talks about the issues that the WTBTS has and encourage JWs to discuss them.

  There is nothing wrong with fighting for right, but you do not have to break your hand throwing the punch.
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  8

  When is it going to crash?

  by Alex Delta in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i see allot of people here that is in the know i mean really in the know and am very great full for being in these discussion with you all.

  since this is such a large subject to us all and all have different strong points in it, im sure we can come up with some form of hypothesis when this organization is going to implode on its self or when its about to but before it does it bails last minute by changing some doctrine around so it doesnt completely fall but keep enough for them to survive again for it to rebuild, as theyve done so many times in the past.

  history for some reason tends to always repeat it self, i truly believe its about that time.

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  notyetx

  It will not implode in a sudden cataclysm. It will fade away into irrelevancy.
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  60

  Feb. 1 mass calling campaign. Will you call?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if it was mentiopned.

  but i think that we are talking about not just one call from each person, but we are talking about spending a good length of time calling repeatedly.

  othrwise it just won't have much of an impact.

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  notyetx

  Better be very cautious about anti-phone jamming laws. The WTBTS might decide to prosecute under some state or federal telecommunications laws if there is a concerted effort to jam the phone with mischievous intent.
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  33

  1000 asked to leave bethel complexes

  by atpeace in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just heard this - anyone else?

  i was curious as to the reason people were given for this.

  and i can't help but think of those that will be trying to get a job in this economy, with few skills and probably no college education.

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  notyetx

  Are there particular types of positions targeted for downsizing? It would seem that technology upgrades would make some of the old printing, packing and shipping jobs redundant.

  It is a shame that the WTBTS does not give a severance to these folks. It is nominally "volunteer" but these folks have foolishly allowed themselves to become "employees" in at least the broad sense of the term.

  Is it just me or does it seem that the people that most quickly come to a realization of the big problems of the WTBTS come from 1) the Bethel ranks or 2) the elder ranks? Maybe too much inside information is a bad thing for blind faith.
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  283

  News from Mother ship

  by jefferywhat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1. bethel in ny suspect high level apostate, cant identify it but know its there.

  2. major organizational changes about to start rolling out, one is changes to the "service committee" and titles, po to be done away with, thats all i know for now.

  was told that if you are the sort of person that cant handle changes, you wont stay in the org for long.

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  notyetx

  It is hard to imagine that much would change (in terms of the local BOEs) unless their most powerful weapon-the judicial process- was either reformed or eliminated. Their relationship with the congregations would remain the same- an unpaid clergy class without meaningful accountability inside the local congregation itself. If speaking against (or arguing against) an elder is still tantamount to arguing against an divinely appointed agent of Jesus and worthy of some punishment, then nothing really can ever change. End the disfellowshipment policy and open up the appointment process (and all the congregation records as well).

  There were always be a hierarchy- and that is the problem. The first century congregation was much more egalitarian. Even though Paul hated women, they had a more significant role. Disagreement and debate was normal.

  To really change the BOEs, return democracy to the process. There should be an appointment and retention process where the CO and BOE have a role in the initial appontment of both men and women.

  The BOE is a political body as it is anyway. Let them prove their worth and have limited terms of 2 years. If they are no good, throw them out. Make them servants rather than overseers. (Only slaves have overseers.)

  I hope this is a real development. Maybe reform might still be possible.
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  65

  Class Suit Against the Watchtower -- Anyone?

  by Dogaradodya in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm inviting former jws to file a class suit against the watchtower for psychological, sociological, physical, intellectual, biological and financial damages.

  a. psychological damage:.

  1. followers are made to believe that the christian bible is the sole and exclusive word of god.

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  notyetx

  I think there may be an Establishment Cause issue here. It is hard for a civil court to judge the relative merits of a set of religious beliefs. It would seem that even if the beliefs were harmful (like if someone was a member of the Nazi Party or the KKK), the right to believe and practice such things cannot be punished under law UNLESS there are some discernible damages to an innocent third party due to those beliefs. (Example: If the KKK commits a hate crime against a minority person due to its beliefs in white supremacy, the person (or survivors) have a claim against the KKK.)

  Class action suits are even harder because a court has to certify the class under the state (or federal) rules of civil procedure. There is a test about the number of plaintiffs, type and similarity of claim, adequacy of representation and the like.

  I think that you should spend your time investing in a public education campaign like this one. It is far more effective and less costly. Besides, the WTBTS is not going to fall down with one great blow. It is fading in its power to persuade and remain credible as a belief system (even to its own adherents). I am so sorry about the personal damage that has been caused to you and your family. Just tell your story to as many people in as many ways as you can. Remember that every day you know the "truth" about the WTBTS you are winning.
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  18

  Are we too cynical?

  by Princess Daisy Boo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it a good thing to look for fault in everything the borg does?

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  are we clutching at straws sometimes in our efforts to strengthen our fight and fuel our anger?.

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  notyetx

  I think that the key to being a JW is not a lack of cynicism (they are plenty cynical about other religions and governments) but a lack of skepticism.

  The key problem with JW's is that they are often too gullible because they do not know enough to ask good questions.

  This forum gives a pretty healthy dose of skepticism to its visitors (both lurkers and posters). That can only be positive. Only through full-throttled inquiry can we even hope to find any "truth".

  Are ex-JW's too cynical? No. The reaction is pretty typical when you feel victimized and abused. The key is to stop being a victim and start being a survivor.

  When you can coolly and rationally deconstruct the JW mythologies, then you are a survivor.
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  32

  WTS Higher Education Policy

  by besty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a couple of topics recently have made me think about exactly how cynical are the wts when it comes to their higher education policy for the rank and file.. first one was mavie's about her forthcoming jc which prompted me to flick through richard dawkins the god delusion.

  dawkins quotes from a study published in mensa magazine 2002; .

  "of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection.

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  notyetx

  You are dead-on right. You cannot be too cynical re: the higher education rules. This is exactly what is going on.
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  111

  New Yearbook stats for 2007 now out!

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the report is out!.

  http://www.watchtowernews.org/2007report.pdf.

  cooking the books with 3% increase??.

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  notyetx

  Thank you to everyone for your hospitality (with one outstanding exception).

  Perhaps I should clarify. Institutions with as much entrenched physical and human capital as the WTBTS move with a relatively glacial pace. There are many people who know that problems are significant but cannot move because their livelihoods are at stake.

  The problem comes when change is necessary (and it is slowly dawning on the leadership that change IS necessary) but there is reactionary resistance against change. Remember the disaster that was the French Revolution. The Jacobins and the Committee for Public Safety created a terror state to instill "law or order" amidst the chaos after the monarchy was overthrown.

  The reference point for ex-JWs has to be glasnost and the fall of the Soviet Union. The economic pressure to reform is going to become great on the WTBTS as the child molestation issue and the blood issue force more legal expenses while the membership's contributions begin to slowly dwindle.

  I think the best way to consider this increase is to consider the "lifecycle" of a JW. How many are lifers; how many are transient? This is why "intensity of belief" is important. Too often posters deem the JW's to be a cult. In some ways that is correct. But it is a cult in the same way that Stalinism is a cult.

  The WTBTS, like an big organization, is inherently political and social. The key is to look at its rhythms and not its statistics. The WTBTS is still stuck in the mid-20th century. But economic and social realities will force it to change.

  And remember new people bring new customs and new ideas. (Why else would this board accept new posters?) It works the same with the WTBTS. Just because they have a few thousand more people doesn't mean that they are cookie-cutter JWs. Sometimes their teachers are troubled by the corruption and intellectual dishonesty as well.

  Change is coming. It is slower than most of us want. But it is coming. The newer generations are better educated, better informed and less apocalyptic. This cultural shift will bring a change.

  Face the future with confidence. You are winning-slowly.
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  111

  New Yearbook stats for 2007 now out!

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the report is out!.

  http://www.watchtowernews.org/2007report.pdf.

  cooking the books with 3% increase??.

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  notyetx

  New poster, old lurker.

  A suggestion about the numbers: Calm down!! Nothing happens in a day. Imagine 5-7 years ago when stories like the NBC story could be easily dismissed. Slow but steady progress is being made every day.

  Even with a modest increase (compare the human population increases in each of the countries and the plant as a whole), this says nothing about the degree of intensity with which these beliefs are held. There is a cynicism deeply indebted with those who have been in the Organization for a period of time. Remember the current leadership (and long-term followership) are more interested in the power game. It is about maintaining the status quo and avoiding reform and renewal. Slowly but surely, the Organization will have to move. I think there is a quiet (even silent) revolution happening but it requires patience.

  A second suggestion: A more scientific way to discuss the JW population. Among the people in the ex-JW community are sociologists, mathematicians, and psychologists and university professors. Professionalize the statistics and get a rival number to the official stats.

  Why hasn't someone done a survey that looks not only at population numbers, but at income, age, education, "intensity" of belief, actual hours in the ministry, health issues, retirement prospects, etc.? Anonymous packets or calls to a scientific sample of JW's could give better info. (Imagine a Gallup poll type scenario.) It would be a more honest accounting of the numbers and less subject to manipulation by the Org (or ex-JWs).

  Keep up the good work. Use your heads, don't lose them.