Gopher

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Posts by Gopher

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  4

  Sophisticated Theology is nothing but background STATIC to me.

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably won't win any friends with this one but here goes .

  .. some of the more thoughtful and intelligent believers here may object that atheists only address 'unsophisticated' arguments about the existence of god or noah's flood or the literal account of creation in genesis.

  perhaps you think we ignore the 'sophisticated' arguments that might actually answer our objections.. well in my case your pretty much correct.. my mind turns to mush when 'sophisticated' debate takes over on questions of faith and doctrine.

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  Gopher

  Sophisticated theology = sophistry.

  Sophistry is "the use of reasoning or arguments that sound correct but are actually false".
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  11

  Sequencing of oldest human DNA throws up some unexpected results

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  heard this reported on the bbc radio 4 news just now.

  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-sequence-oldest-human-dna-from-fossilised-leg-bone-found-in-spain-8983416.html.

  snippet of the report.... its dna sequence indicates that this early european was more closely related to a much earlier species of human living in siberia about 700,000 years ago than to the later neanderthals of europe who became extinct about 30,000 years ago.. the genetic link between early europeans and even earlier asians has surprised researchers who had expected to find a closer genetic relationship to the later neanderthals, who had occupied europe for tens of thousands of years before eventually dying out after anatomically-modern humans arrived.. .

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  Gopher

  Are all the Neanderthals going to be resurrected???

  "They already have. Some are in our body of elders."
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  340

  Fallacies about Faith

  by tec in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  peace to you!.

  this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

  this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

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  Gopher

  Hi Tammy.

  Your first point "Faith = good and moral. Lack of faith = bad and immoral" seems to be what some vocal THEISTS actually say about ATHEISTS. I have never heard an atheist say anything like this.

  Actually in the discussions about traits of believers versus those of unbelievers, I am sick of canards that vocal people from both sides are heard to say -- vocal theists say what you said above (after all, if an atheist doesn't have a god watching over him/her, what motiviation does he/she have to behave well).

  I'm not saying ALL theists believe that morality is a function of belief -- most probably don't.

  I've also heard some atheists imply or say that believers cannot properly use their head. That's insulting and not true as I have believing friends and my own believing sister who are quite sharp intellectually.
  
  I am tired of these personal insults and assumptions about ones morality or thoughtfulness. The belief or the thought is not necessarily the same as the believer or the thinker.
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  15

  I just couldn't do it...

  by joyfulfader in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have recently become friends with some women who belong to a church in my area.

  they are fun, great women.

  one of them used to be a witness actually but it has been many years.

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  Gopher

  Just for you, Navytown - here are some Unitarian jokes from Garrison Keillor.

  (Link --> http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/programs/2011/01/22/scripts/jokes.shtml )

  There was a terrible car accident. A woman was lying in the street, covered in blood. Someone in the crowd shouted, "Call a priest!"
  The woman opened her eyes and said, "I'm a Unitarian."
  "Then call a math teacher!"

  What do you call a dead Unitarian Universalist?
  All dressed up with no place to go.

  Jesus took a Unitarian out fishing and the Unitarian accidentally dropped an oar and watched it float away. Jesus stepped out of the boat, walked across the water to the oar, grabbed it, and walked back to the boat. The next day, a friend asked the Unitarian if he had enjoyed fishing with the Lord. "It was okay, but would you believe that guy can't swim?"

  What's the Unitarian's favorite Christmas movie?
  Coincidence on 34th Street.

  It's hard being a Unitarian.
  Who do you call out to during orgasm?
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  15

  I just couldn't do it...

  by joyfulfader in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have recently become friends with some women who belong to a church in my area.

  they are fun, great women.

  one of them used to be a witness actually but it has been many years.

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  Gopher

  Joyfulfader - I guess "sadly" is the right word because we spent so much time and invested so much effort under the idea that the Bible was really trustworthy, and that idea lingered on even after we found ourselves outside of the JW's.

  For skeptics it is true that where reason stops belief begins, and where belief stops reason begins.
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  15

  I just couldn't do it...

  by joyfulfader in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have recently become friends with some women who belong to a church in my area.

  they are fun, great women.

  one of them used to be a witness actually but it has been many years.

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  Gopher

  Same feeling here - that I probably never really believed, no matter how hard I tried or wanted to.

  Actually - everybody is agnostic by the definition of "not knowing for sure", as the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. Atheism can mean you don't see enough evidence to believe, but would believe if irrefutable evidence somehow came about. Strong atheism is the definite philosophy that God cannot exist.

  As far as going to churches, different ex-JW's come to different conclusions. I just talked to an ex-JW Protestant churchgoer this weekend who likes her church but was disturbed by her pastor's assertion that JW's are not Christian because they don't believe in the "same Christ" as real Christians do. THAT kind of attitude is why I never really wanted to start attending another church (post JW) because when you scratch below the surface so many who seem nice are really judgmental about anyone who doesn't fall in line with their belief system. I had ENOUGH of that BS when I was in Watchtower World.
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  5

  To Tree or Not To Tree

  by ctrwtf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  that is the question.................. been inactive for five years now and into what i consider a very successful fade.

  wifey and kids are out.

  and we're truly enjoying life.. probably 4 years ago we started with the completely religiously neutral "family day.

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  Gopher

  Well, it sounds like the decision is "to tree". So Merry Christmas!
  
  Brace yourself - some prospecter's elder asses may come and try to play Grinch. Hopefully this won't mess things up with your wife's distant relatives who may want to see your wife carry the same Watchtower burdens that they carry.
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  13

  "Special week of activity"

  by stillin in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the co visit.

  i should keep count of how many times somebody uses that phrase.

  in the announcements, in the prayers, in their parts, ad nauseous.. and really...c'mon, now.

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  Gopher

  Stillin, this is for you:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwqnqL3Hbg
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  288

  Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

  i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

  it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

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  Gopher

  I don't think the whole forum has become a Believer/Atheist war zone (to answer the original question if anyone still wants to discuss that point). However as this thread has illustrated, there are certain pockets of the forum where battles take place and each side tries to get the upper hand. Eventually both sides tire out and believe they made their point and they "won".

  Such is the stuff of human nature, on this forum and any other place where you gather a thousand or more different people. It doesn't mean that as a whole, this forum has lost focus on the fact that the Watchtower Society harms people. Where we go on the spectrum of religion (eastern vs. western, Catholic vs. Protestant, believer vs. non-believer) is hopefully right for each one of us, and not just something into which we were tricked or something we just took up without thinking it through.
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  13

  China Number One Already?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-26/chart-day-how-five-short-years-breakneck-liquification-china-humiliated-worlds-centr.

  this chart surprized me!

  the chinese are racing towards economic domination.. .

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  Gopher

  Hi Fulltimestudent. Interesting takes, a lot to discuss.

  As far as the difference between China and Japan, it is true that the American plan to help rebuild the decimated nations of World War II led to outstanding economic recovery, especially in the cases of Germany and Japan. However when Japan started to challenge and directly compete with America they incorporated ideas that were uniquely Japanese to try to beat America at its own game. And for a while they succeeded. But as we both know, they never became the dominant world economic power.

  You make an excellent point that the Americans' fear of the USSR turned out to be overblown and was largely the result of propaganda. Americans noticed when the USSR tried to beat America and the world militarily and culturally (example - how they trained their Olympic athletes to be the best in many events, and even used Communist gymnastics and figure-skating judges to make sure their athletes would get the benefit of any doubts). I think that some of the same thing is happening in the American fear of a rising China now -- it's largely the result of propaganda fed by media and politicians.
  
  You say China is out there learning how to do things. Japan was too, back in the day. The American joke "the Japanese take pictures of everything here before they take it over" was based on a real fear.
  
  I still don't see the Chinese as innovators and creators. It's just not currently in their culture. If they don't turn that around, they will suffer the fate of Japan and fall back. This economic miracle they've had over the last few years with double-digit growth in their economy is just not sustainable. Their era of cheap labor is over. Multi-national corporations now seek cheaper labor in places like India and Cambodia. Now the Chinese must begin to have a culture of innovation and creation, otherwise they'll become merely a consumer society. As the Time article points out, the standard of living is rising in China and their people are largely choosing foreign brand names and imported products over the *stuff* made in their home country.