well as you know unless you are an elders son or daughter generally jw's don't lift a finger to help all those ones feeling downtrodden and lonely.
i felt like this from july 1994 to march 2000. i prayed to jehovah constantly for help to ease the loneliness, i begged the elders and even others.
for a long time the only ones who would talk to me where the elderly ones(who i miss now since i left) i cried every night and felt after five years of being at meetings and feeling invisable (even though i was an auxillary pioneer) i decided that my life was worth fighting for.
Naomi,
Allow me a quick reply.
(1) I don't mean to be "preachy" out here. (I do get a little wordy sometimes, that is a weakness of mine.) I'm only trying to be helpful to you and/or other readers. I definitely respect anyone's right to believe as they wish.
(2) I did post my story the very first day I joined here. You can read it at this link, hope it works: http://206.61.99.151/forum/thread.asp?id=3465&site=3
Thanks, Gopher
did you know that the jass musican george benson is a jw?.
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis/web/vortex/display?slug=jazz25&date=20000825.
kent
Claudia, Teresa Graves was an actress on TV back in the 1960's and 70's. (See my earlier post.) Before "Christy Love", she appeared on the weekly comedy show "Laugh-In", kind of a "Saturday Night Live" for its time.
Vince Gill is a country-western singer (and not a fish organ).
Gopher, endlessly fascinated by JW-Pop culture tie-ins
Edited by - Gopher on 24 March 2001 0:41:40
there is a practice among jws of applying restrictions to individual members.
it forms part of the judicial process and, although having no scriptural basis, is applied automatically to erring ones who are judged to be repentant.. so, for a period of time, usually up to 12 months, the individual is not allowed to share in commenting at meetings, offering public prayer, appearing on the platform in congregation meetings, or in serving as an auxiliary pioneer.. as with any man-made law, difficulties arise from this practice.
although no announcement has been made to the congregation, individual congregation members can have their curiosity aroused.. for example, take the real-life situation where a sole parent has been placed on restrictions by a judicial committee.
Ozzie, great topic!
What you have outlined shows that 'private reproof' does not really exist. Goodness, even before the elders meet with you word gets around. I mean, if the "friends" see 2 or 3 brothers going with you into that dreaded conference room, how long before people talk about you? 15 seconds or so?
That part about DF'd people not having the 'privilege' to read the KM was one thing that really made me re-evaluate, was all this humiliation worth it? I guess this is some sort of TEST. If you can withstand all the humiliation for some extended time period, then you can rejoin the group with all its 'privileges'.
Of course, none of these practices will change. It would be too loving!
Gopher, who only learns about the recent KM's from this Discussion Board
this is my first time at this so bare with me.
i will be turning 21 tomorrow so i decided to celebrate like this.
my family threw me a surprise birthday a week ago and we even had a pinata .
Hello. You have a lot to deal with! I can understand, because I was dismissed from JW's 1 year ago, but just a few months ago stopped going. I worried a lot about what was next!!
You seem to have a lot of concerns about the distant future. I would say just get to know yourself better first, and concentrate on the HERE and NOW. Establish your goals in life and what is truth FOR YOU.
Even though JW's have not proved to be the answer, yet there are a few Bible teachings that you may choose to take with you forward into life. If the paradise hope and the teaching about Jesus being second to God make sense, hold on. Read God's Word (if you can stand to do so), find what makes sense to you. Then pass the truths you are sure of to your future children.
When I saw your concern about your parents (I hope they are doing well physically!), it made me think about what I read one time. Life is like a road where you have 10 cars coming directly at you from the opposite direction. But what happens in real life is that 9 cars veer into the ditch before they ever reach you, so you only need to worry about that remaining 1 car. In other words, if you worry about every possible thing that may go wrong, you'll wreck your happiness and waste mental energy that could be well spent on other things! Worry about the things that actually confront you.
So continue to develop a relationship with your Creator, which should easier now that a meddling organization is out of your way.
Just my thoughts.
Gopher
this looks like a friendly forum and i will do my very first posting here because i finally feel i can trust someone to help me.
i published an article on the local newspaper against the jw and part of my sour experiences while i was a jw; they only let me use 300 words and deleted the most important ones ofcourse.
my problem is that iam now getting very negative responses to my article and i need you all to help me write something positive for us ex-jw's for a change.
1. Ex-JW's are open to your ideas. They will not condemn you for your beliefs.
2. Ex-JW's understand the pain individuals have, and try to help each member of the ex-JW community feel more "whole".
3. Ex-JW's confront the truths about what they believe. This does not mean they all reach the same conclusion. But they have gained a better understanding about their own personal belief system.
Freenow--are these ideas helpful?
Gopher
well as you know unless you are an elders son or daughter generally jw's don't lift a finger to help all those ones feeling downtrodden and lonely.
i felt like this from july 1994 to march 2000. i prayed to jehovah constantly for help to ease the loneliness, i begged the elders and even others.
for a long time the only ones who would talk to me where the elderly ones(who i miss now since i left) i cried every night and felt after five years of being at meetings and feeling invisable (even though i was an auxillary pioneer) i decided that my life was worth fighting for.
Naomi, mind if I chime in here?
You say you believe things you were taught. I have only been out about a year myself, and I am happy to know some of the truths taught by the JW's, such as "No Trinity", "No Immortal Soul", etc. These are all Bible-based doctrines, and by the way, some of these ideas are found scattered in other minority religions of the world. For example Unitarians believe "No Trinity", as do the Moslems.
However, JW's have (like other religions) blended in some man-made ideas, such as shunning those who are judged unworthy of companionship (whether they did, or with what attitude, the judgments are often only guesswork). Do you realize that there isn't really anything in God's Word which supports discipline to the extent of total shunning? (Only 2 John 9-10, where outside apostates are to be rejected IF THEY TRY TO BRING THEIR TEACHING INSIDE THE CONGREGATION, is total shunning even hinted at.)
Bad teachings lead to bad fruitage. The teaching of shunning naturally causes other ill effects. These include a superior attitude towards outsiders, towards those inside whose circumstances are not "on par" with the others (like your friend Cath), and of course towards those (like yourself) who have been the object of public discipline. (It's okay to gossip about them. They probably won't survive Armageddon anyway! That's how the thinking seems to go.)
The point is, I'm not really sure you believe "everything" JW's teach, probably just some major things. It's okay to admit that! It's part of the emotional healing. It's part of facing the truth, that what we believed for years and years may not have been ALL true.
Hoping this is helpful to you as you try to sort it all out and move on.
With affection/concern, Gopher
Edited by - Gopher on 23 March 2001 17:24:44
since jesus is called the "wisdom of god" (1 cor.
micah 5:2 refers to jesus the same way psa.
he can not be the father, since he prayed to the father in jn.
Amen to your last paragraph! I think everyone should be able to reason out their beliefs and be open to a fair discussion. As we have learned, such open discussion gets choked out on inside the bureaucracy. (Cough, cough!)
The mystery of time's begining (or lack thereof) and God's infinite existence is both awe-inspiring and yet at times, frustrating to the human mind. We only understand the boundaries of our own existence. Jehovah himself acknowledges this in the book of Isaiah -- i.e., his thoughts and ways are higher than ours.
I believe Jah has done His best at explaining enough of himself to us, in terms we can understand. There are some things we do not need to understand in order to be happy and to serve him. But what he has revealed to us in his Word is truthful. We just need to unlock it!
since jesus is called the "wisdom of god" (1 cor.
micah 5:2 refers to jesus the same way psa.
he can not be the father, since he prayed to the father in jn.
Thanks for spelling out your views and for telling about your ex-JW background. Does something this deep belong over on the "Bible Study" forum? (It would stay closer to the "top" longer over there.)
Although I can no longer subscribe to all WTS dogma, I still believe no Trinity exists. Part of the problem is that the views of the Trinitarian believers vary so widely, almost from person to person. Some emphasize the "duality" of Father and Son, as you seem to, leaving the holy spirit out. Other Trinitarians would disagree with you and say "The Son = The Father" in terms of where one appears in the scripture, you can easily substitute the other. Really just one personality.
My other problem is that you have to go far beyond the realm of the Bible into either intuition (which most Trinitarians use) or into terribly uncommon and sophisticated ideas such as scientific "string theories" and Einsteinin propositions.
I won't answer point by point because this isn't the Bible Study forum. But I'll focus on objections 1, 2 and 11 and perhaps leave others for another day.
In your answer to objections 1 and 2, you clearly conceded that the Son's "Office" is different than his Father's. When I approach the Father in prayer through his Son, that difference in their "offices" is helpful in clarifying things for me. It would not help me to know that they are co-equal, co-existent or anything else. If one is subject to the other, like a wife to a husband, that tells me which one of the two is directing things/making final decisions, and who else I can get help from (or serve, to view things less selfishly).
Regarding objection #11 and John 20:17 ("Jesus called his Father his God.") You fell prey here to a tactic that Trinitarians often seem to use, that is you quote them one scripture, and they jump to several others that they want to fall back on. John 20:17 is helpful, because it helps me understand that Jesus has a God just like I do. Sorry if it sounds too simple-minded, but sometimes the most profound truths are the simplest ones!
I'm not trying to get involved in a lengthy theological debate. I think we both believe the same basic things about Christ's love, salvation, etc. And I'm happy that you are open enough to post your views. I don't share all of them, but it's great we can still get along in this forum!
Thanks for listening.
did you know that the jass musican george benson is a jw?.
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis/web/vortex/display?slug=jazz25&date=20000825.
kent
Waiting,
Teresa Graves is the actress who portrayed "Christy Love", that police-woman type.
Last time I saw her was in about '76 when she was on morning talk-show "Good Morning America" with David Hartman. She was almost in tears describing the fate of JW's in Malawi. (Oh, if only she knew they didn't need to go through it! See "Crisis of Conscience".)
She slipped into anonymity pioneering in California. Haven't heard from her since. The difference between her and the others: she gave up the 'celebrity' bit right away upon converting.
did you know that the jass musican george benson is a jw?.
http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis/web/vortex/display?slug=jazz25&date=20000825.
kent
Mr. Benson has been associated with "the org" since at least the 80's.
ApostleAK: You are referring to Larry Graham. His article "I Found One in a Million", his life story, appeared in the Awake! a few years back. He is still active in the western side of the Twin Cities area (Minneapolis-St.Paul, Minnesota, USA). He had recently been studying with the Minneapolis pop music icon "Prince". I don't know (or care) if that is still ongoing.
I-ching, sorry to contribute to this phenomenon. I find it fascinating and horrifying at the same time when the JW culture and the American pop culture intersect.
Gopher (who is not a member of any fan club)
