just wanted to fit in.
:p. "no cool quote yet.
but i'll think of one soon.
Dorky,
You didn't do this quite right. You didn't point fingers at anybody in your initial post on this thread. You didn't blame the demise of H2O for anything, and you didn't bemoan the change in atmosphere since you first joined.
And finally, you didn't dramatically make your exit!
You're obviously just trying to impress Ginger.
Gopher
....this is only my second post, so please be gentle!!!
thank you all for such a wonderful, supporting, loving, caring forum... where the truth at last can be spoken!!!
...i have soooooo many posts to make, and soooooo little time!!!
PB62,
Welcome home! And how could we be anything but "gentle" to someone with such a cuddly, warm name? My 2-year-old is, you guessed it, a big Winnie the Pooh fan.
Yeah, it gets rough-and-tumble out here sometimes. That's when your "bear" instincts will naturally take over!
I look forward to reading your posts.
Another "animal",
Gopher
"for no matter how many the promises of god are, they have become yes by means of him.
therefore also through him is the "amen" [said] to god for glory through us.
"-2 cor 1:20.
Littleone,
Thanks for a very interesting reply.
Jehovah's Witnesses must agree that "the appointed times of the nations" is only during or after the great tribulation, which is said to be a future event. They can't have their pie and eat it too....
I love that! BTW, I was a JW up until a year ago, and so am recovering and haven't spent as much time in deep Bible study as before. But when I do study, I try to follow your method and go after what the BIBLE ITSELF says IN CONTEXT, rather than filtering it through an egocentric man-made organization.
In line with your topic "True Prophecy", now I ask, to whom do you feel Jehovah (Yahweh) is revealing information ahead of time, today? Is it nobody? Or is it a single group, or is it faithful, scattered, studious Christians whereever they may be found?
I myself don't believe he reveals truth through a single "organ", although I did until recently becoming disillusioned.
Thanks,
Gopher
the wt law says that anybody that as been disfellowshipped, d/a or become an apostate can not be prayed for!.
pity jw's don't apply jesus word below!.
*** w95 6/15 5 an end to hatred worldwide ***.
Qwerty,
The JW religion isn't based on love, but on an "enforced unity", which includes demonizing all outsiders, especially those who were once members but have the audacity to go away or stay away. It's a "spiritual warfare" tactic, that is, to slur and propagandize against the "enemy". Truthfulness does not count.
JW's are so much taught to hate their enemy, and it won't change. Thanks for the post.
Gopher
can you spot the wt double speak in the two faq's?.
or anyone else like to comment?
(not open to fred, coz we've heard it all before!).
Hey Qwerty and all,
What about Jesus' rule:
"Let your YES mean YES, and your NO mean NO. Anything in excess of that is from the wicked one."
So the answer to both the first and second questions is "no, really yes".
What wickedness!
Gopher
"for no matter how many the promises of god are, they have become yes by means of him.
therefore also through him is the "amen" [said] to god for glory through us.
"-2 cor 1:20.
Littleone,
Welcome to the board. If you want, you can do a mini-bio about who you are in the "Make New Friends" forum.
One quick technical note, you ARE able to go back and edit a mistake in your post (such as where the word "Gospels" appears) by clicking on the "pencil" icon just above your post, and then over-typing the error you want to fix.
As far as prophecies always being revealed BEFORE they happen, I'd like to point to a specific example and get your thought. That is, the 1914 prophecy of C.T. Russell and the early Bible Students. At first they thought 1914 would mean the end of earthly governments and their being raised to heaven, which of course didn't happen. In 1925, the "understanding" came out that what REALLY happened in 1914 was that the Kingdom Government was established invisibly, in heaven.
So the prophecy didn't get fully understood (if indeed the 2nd guess was even correct) until over a decade later.
So the "faithful slave" seems to acknowledge that prophecy is not fully complete until AFTER the event.
Unless...this is where the question to you comes in, was this really a prophecy at all? Your 2 requirements in your post were (1) It's mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures and (2) it is somehow confirmed (made "Amen" or "yes") by Jesus at the time he walked the earth. So really does the 1914 "prophecy" fulfill those 2 requirements?
And where does the WT Society stand in relation as a reliable indicator of Bible prophecy?
Gopher
in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.
i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.
standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.
Animalmother,
Have patience at this time of night. The responses come a little slower from us here in the USA or Canada.
The reason we didn't salute the flag as JW's was because of what the WTS taught us. That is, that the flag is a nationalistic emblem, and saluting it would amount to idolatrous worship. This is similar to the Bible account of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the book of Daniel. Those 3 refused to bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar's new statue, because it would compromise their worship of Jehovah.
So JW's across the world refuse to salute the flag of their respective nations.
Gopher
in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.
i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.
standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.
Skimmer,
You said "it was a disfellowshipping offense...to stand for the daily pledge". In our school system, they only held the daily pledge up until 6th grade. I wasn't baptized until I was in 11th grade, so they couldn't have disfellowshipped me, LOL. But being an elder's child, I'm sure I would have been corrected about "standing" if someone got uptight about it.
As far as flags being displayed at halls used for circuit assemblies....quite a common sight around here, as most of our assemblies were held in high-school gymasiums. The flags were always proudly on display, as were posters & signs urging on the school's team to victory. It was all "part of the scenery".
During the 1960's the Minneapolis JW circuit met at the downtown National Guard Armory. As I recall, not only were flags on display there but actual instruments of war.... Interesting things to view during lunch break.
Gopher (always interested in the "scenery" during conventions)
in recent years we have seen wtbts "new light" that has eliminated the prohibitions on alternative service, voting, and (perhaps) carrying certain types of identity cards.. given that the practices of standing for the national flag or standing during the playing of the national anthem have been condemned in print in the same paragraphs as the above mentioned new light, isn't it about time that standing for the flag/anthem will become a conscience matter?.
i would hope so, because not standing for these occasions is more than a little embarrassing for younger people still in school.
standing is merely a sign of respect and honor, and this is clearly allowed by scripture.
Skimmer,
When I was in school (1970's), the options explained to me as a young JW was that I could either sit or stand during the flag salute. Some JW kids sat, others stood during the salute. (I stood, not wanting to be TOO different...)
As far as the national anthem, such as at sporting events, the way it was explained was if you were ALREADY standing when the anthem started, you didn't need to take the special action of sitting down. However, if you were sitting down, you had to keep your caboose in the chair. Needless to say, many JW's attending such events would leave for the corridors right before the anthem started, and conveniently arrive back at their seat when the anthem concluded.
Gopher
there is a great tendency among the supposed mature jws to look down on others.
my mother was/is one of those types and was a master of saying one thing while meaning the exact opposite.
the wise knew what she meant.. for instance, we had the co stay with us on one occasion which gave my mother plenty of time to pretend we were much better jws than we really were.
Thirdson,
And here I thought this problem of "double-speak" happened only here in Minnesota. In our culture it's called "Minnesota Nice", i.e., say nice things about a person to their face and sneer at them behind their back.
JW's are no better than the world in regard to this form of hypocrisy. The "loving expressions" shown by those such as your mother are really a veneer for the judgmentalism that is endemic among them. Such expressions are part of the "show", and it's probably going on behind our back quite regularly, as you stated. But if we came back their expressions might be wonderful like the prodigal son's father, but their attitude may be closer to that of the prodigal son's brother.
Gopher
