Gopher

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Posts by Gopher

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  25

  Wisdom Personified

  by ozziepost in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the next time a householder says to you: everyone has his own interpretation of the bible, how will you respond?

  perhaps you will use the suggestion from the reasoning book (page 65) you might reply: and obviously not all of them are right.

  you might add: twisting the scriptures to fit our own ideas can result in lasting harm .

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  Gopher

  Yes what is stated in the Watchtower is interpretation. We need context.

  I guess what persuades me that the "wisdom" of Proverbs 8 is not a mere quality is the statement in verse 22, "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his acheivements from long ago".

  If wisdom, the quality, were "produced" at a certain stage, it would imply that at some point Jehovah didn't have the quality of wisdom, that he had to create it.

  It seems more straightforward to believe that he created an individual who would be a container of his wisdom.

  Gopher
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  20

  "Not of Our Sort" Part I

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am an old man.. this is a topic i have been comtemplating for some time as i continue in this transitional time of my life, reminiscing about my 50+ years with what some of you call the "borg", but i simply refer to as jehovah's witnesses.. good people i have known who loved god, but did not fit into the organizational scheme of things is the topic.

  there will be at least three parts a la amazing.

  this topic will sink out of sight like a rock, but it is therapeutic to write it and the contemplation brings a smile to my face.. my first subject is b.w.. b.w.

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  Gopher

  TMS,

  Wow! We can rest assured that what counts is how people like B.W. are judged by Christ, rather than by an organization. That organization trains people in simplistic judging & dismissal of very good people. "Not of OUR sort", I can just hear people in the organization saying that about those of us who are no longer with them, although who cares what people say?

  Your post supports two ideas:

  (1) The JW organization cannot hold onto its best and brightest.
  (2) No good deed goes unpunished there.

  Thanks for sharing the story of B.W.
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  7

  Independent Thinking - Prohibited?

  by dutyfree in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there are many people who claim that jws are brainwashed... i am not going to disagree with that statement!.

  i have read somewhere that jws are specifically instructed not to think independently and/or logically, as that is satan's way of getting to you!.

  when i told this to someone recently she said she was an independent thinker and had never heard that - unfortunately i cannot remember where i heard or read it - i think it was on a website.

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  Gopher

  Thanks Jan for putting together the quotes from THEIR OWN literature! Apparently they have to have "lockstep uniformity" to keep such an organization together.

  I love that line, "how do you do dependent thinking?" JW's superstitiously hold to the company line. "My religion, right or wrong".

  Gopher
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  23

  Want to help my JW friend

  by wannahelp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm new here, and i want to make it clear upfront that i am not, nor have i ever been a jw.

  in fact, until recently i didn't know much about jw's.

  but i do have a question that i hope both jw's and ex-jw's will try and answer for me... about 10 months ago, i hired a 20 year old to work for me.. i hired him because he seemed very loyal, ethical, sincere, hardworking and honest.

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  Gopher

  Wannahelp,

  My jaw just dropped when I read your post. You have such good insight as to what makes JW's tick, what with "conditional friendship", etc. After all the input here, I am confident you'll proceed in the best manner possible. You know your friend's particular circumstances and personality better than any one of us. But you were smart to check things out here. Best wishes, and let us know how things turn out later, if you wish.

  To the other posters above, I am impressed by all your answers above!! I have nothing more to add. You folks are very thoughtful and well-spoken.

  Gopher
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  95

  Org. Re-orging in JAPAN

  by JWD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who haven`t been following it,the wts is in a downward spiral here in japan.fs hours are down,memorial attendance.

  is down,pioneers are down,studies are down,donations are down,number.

  of congregations is down and the number of publishers continues to.

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  Gopher

  JWD,

  Thanks for the update on Japan. I remember when growing up, the Japan Witnesses were always held up before us American witnesses as a model to follow, with their pioneer zeal, low disfellowshipping rate, etc., etc.

  BTW, the MTS (Ministerial Training School) is an international effort which was first rolled out several years ago here in the USA for unmarried elders and ministerial servants, to give them intensive training and send them back or to send them where they're needed. Is that the same MTS you referred to?

  Also there's been a shepherding effort here in the USA to annually go an check out who is inactive or DF'd to see who may be interested in returning to the organization. But participation in this effort is voluntary and usually is not done.

  Interesting post about how they're scrambling to stop the decline in what was the ideal theocracy. Thanks.

  Gopher
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  9

  Some still think Russell was right!

  by professor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while even the organization c.t.

  russell founded, the watchtower society, now denies much of what he taught, there are still those who call themselves bible students, who follow russell to this day!.

  a short history of the bible students:.

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  Gopher

  Professor,

  You can make a link clickable by typing a non-blank character in the left-most column of a post. Example below, I typed an * right before the address. The * does not appear in the post, however.

  * http://www.chicagobible.org/whocbs_5.html

  Stephanus,

  Up until about a week ago, we had a poster on this board named RR who is an ardent "Bible Student". He left the board citing the increasing number of posts with garbage and hate-incited threads. According to the forum's statistics, he posted here 360 times, making him one of the all-time leaders. I miss him, even though I didn't always agree, his posts were usually thought-provoking.

  Gopher
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  8

  Anyone Have the District Conv. Schedule?

  by SanFranciscoJim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would someone please post or email me the schedule (i believe it's in either the february 1 or february 15 watchtower) for the english-language district assemblies being held at the cow palace in daly city (san francisco area), california?.

  thanks!!

  !

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  Gopher

  Francoise,

  Yes I'm here in Minneapolis, we have several vile apostates here LOL. Anytime you wish to come on up, send an e-mail.

  I've heard of Pipito's or is it Pepito's? Never have been there, but now I'll go!

  I have had the very rich and fattening food of the Black Forest (der Schwarzwald if Sprechen Deutsch). Just thinking about it makes me want to lay down and take a nap!

  Jim,

  Sorry we won't be seeing you this August. We were starting to make plans, even. Maybe someday. Thanks for the invitation and the link.

  Gopher
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  8

  Anyone Have the District Conv. Schedule?

  by SanFranciscoJim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would someone please post or email me the schedule (i believe it's in either the february 1 or february 15 watchtower) for the english-language district assemblies being held at the cow palace in daly city (san francisco area), california?.

  thanks!!

  !

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  Gopher

  SF Jim:

  No problem. Maybe when you come to Minneapolis, we can have a mini Aposta-fest! Peaceloveharmony has a favorite place to go at night you might like when in town.

  Kismet:

  Hamilton has sessions scheduled on June 22-24 and June 29 - July 1. There are also conventions in Kitchener, Cornwall and North Bay. I don't know my Canadian geography very well, so I don't know if any dates for those sites would help you.

  As far as your aposta-fest, it sounds great! Toronto Island sounds like a fine setting. I'd come just for the nude beach, maybe. We're having a Minnesota aposta-fest the first Saturday of June.
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  16

  DECEPTIVE JW ELDERS - CASE#3

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  deceptive jw elders case#3 .

  for there is nothing hid, save that it should be manifested; neither was (anything) made secret, but that it should come to light.

  mark 4:22 .

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  Gopher

  Amazing,

  Thank you for posting this enlightening information. I had no idea that it's not atypical for one-third of the congregation to have an entry in the elder's "trouble file"!

  I never was an elder, but I did have the "privilege" of being "shepherded" in a JC setting. I am glad to learn they burn stuff after 5 years, even though a lot of stuff in there about me is hearsay.

  I too had to be "burned" unfairly before I saw the light. That's it, the fire from the burning lit up the path to freedom!

  Gopher
• 
  8

  Anyone Have the District Conv. Schedule?

  by SanFranciscoJim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  would someone please post or email me the schedule (i believe it's in either the february 1 or february 15 watchtower) for the english-language district assemblies being held at the cow palace in daly city (san francisco area), california?.

  thanks!!

  !

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  Gopher

  Jim,

  I have that info. My subscription didn't run out until May, LOL.

  The dates I see are:

  June 1-3
  June 8-10
  June 15-17
  June 22-24
  July 6-8 (Spanish only)
  July 13-15 (Spanish only)
  July 20-22 (Spanish only)
  July 27-29 (Portuguese sessions also)
  August 3-5

  Gopher