As the old saying goes,
In war, TRUTH is often the first casualty.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Posts by Gopher
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3Uh-oh, has it started?
by ozziepost intaliban militia shoots down us spy plane.
afp - afghanistan's taliban militia claimed they had shot down an unmanned united states spy plane in the northern province of samangan, the pakistan-based afghan islamic press (aip) reported.. quoting mawlawi najibullah, a senior afghan diplomat in peshawar, aip said the unmanned plane was shot down with heavy machine guns early saturday in the northern province of samangan, situated close to the border with uzbekistan.. .
aap 2001 .
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Gopher
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19
50 Years Ago in the Watchtower
by Thirdson inno doubt you are familiar with the practice of many popular magazines to print selected extracts from their issues 25, 50 or 100 years ago.
(scientific american goes back 150 years).
what is interesting is the ideas presented then, sometimes they are fanciful and just plain wrong.
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Gopher
Thirdson,
Instead of using "worldly", maybe they'll get politically correct and use my new term: SPIRITUALLY CHALLENGED!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
3
Uh-oh, has it started?
by ozziepost intaliban militia shoots down us spy plane.
afp - afghanistan's taliban militia claimed they had shot down an unmanned united states spy plane in the northern province of samangan, the pakistan-based afghan islamic press (aip) reported.. quoting mawlawi najibullah, a senior afghan diplomat in peshawar, aip said the unmanned plane was shot down with heavy machine guns early saturday in the northern province of samangan, situated close to the border with uzbekistan.. .
aap 2001 .
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Gopher
PROBABLY NOT! HERE's AN UPDATE
Link: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010922/wl/attacks_afghanistan.html
Taliban: Unmanned Plane Shot Down
By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press WriterISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Taliban forces shot down an unmanned spy plane in northern Afghanistan (news - web sites) on Saturday and were trying to determine what nation it belonged to, a Taliban official said.
A Pentagon (news - web sites) official declined to comment on the reported downing, which came as U.S. forces were preparing for a possible military assault on Afghanistan, which harbors Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.
Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban's ambassador to Pakistan, said the aircraft was shot down over Tashgurgan Pass in Afghanistan's northern Samangan province by Taliban soldiers armed with Russian-made anti-aircraft weapons.
``We are still trying to ascertain what country this plane belongs to,'' Zaeef said in an interview.
The Afghan Islamic Press, an Afghan news agency based in Islamabad, first reported that it was a U.S. spy plane, then said it wasn't sure which country it was from.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
95
Org. Re-orging in JAPAN
by JWD infor those of you who haven`t been following it,the wts is in a downward spiral here in japan.fs hours are down,memorial attendance.
is down,pioneers are down,studies are down,donations are down,number.
of congregations is down and the number of publishers continues to.
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Gopher
JWD may be absolutely correct in stating that in Japan, they simply didn't feel the need to follow through on this "suggestion" to go shepherd the DF'd and DA'd individuals.
I remember at a circuit assembly (mid 90's), the district overseer clearly stated that this was a SUGGESTION and not a RULE, and that elders weren't to be criticized if this wasn't currently happening in your area. (I was surprised to hear it, but it was quite clear.) I had always thought that when the WT Society made a "SUGGESTION", you'd better get on your horse and start riding! But the district overseer said NO, it was optional!
I don't know if that idea (that such shepherding was optional) was confined to our area of the USA, or if the Society has re-inforced this directive.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
50
Cult Fighters are short sighted fools
by proplog2 inthe anti-cultists are narrow minded and uninformed to say the least.. you see a lot of this here.
it is mostly a cover for irrational hatred.
most religions organized in a way that they expected their members to take their beliefs seriously.
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Gopher
This thread is getting way long.
Proplog2, what was the original intent of posting this? Do you feel that the entire existence of this discussion board is an expression of narrow-mindedness and hate?
Was this some attempt (even though it'd be a long shot) to convince people NOT to post to this board, or to only post "nice" things about JW's?
You said the anti-cultists here are narrow-minded and displaying irrational hatred. It seems to me (after being both "inside" and "outside" the JW organization) that JW's are encouraged to be narrow-minded. And THEY themselves display hatred of anything "other-wordly". I view the complicated judicial system within JW's as harsh and displaying irrational hatred toward some of Christ's "sheep". By "complicated system", I mean all the man-made rules which surround the judicial procedures themselves, along with some of the bewildering reasons a person could find themselves targeted for some of that good ol' WT Society "justice".
As was pointed out by others earlier in this thread, the very reason for the existence of this board is the pain inflicted by the man-made rules of the "organization" which claims that its hallmark is "Christlike love". Individuals here have tried to make sense of the quirky goings-on of the worldwide congregation, which does not come near to the ideal published for public consumption in the pages of the Watchtower magazine. Their reactions lead them to a new place in life, anywhere from non-JW Christianity to outright atheism, to everything in between. This is not the result of some "conspiracy", but rather normal human reaction to being "tossed about like sheep without a shepherd".
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
18
My New Childrens Book - First Chapter
by Naeblis injack was his name and killing puppies was his game.
he was the best god damned puppy killer around, and folks in them here parts knew he always did good work.
"got too many puppies," the old man drawled, "don't wants to kill them but what can be done?".
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Gopher
Removed post due to Waiting's comments about her sad experiences
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13
Hello, new here. . .
by aschen ini was able to chat with several people last wednesday night under my husband's username feb1600.
i had such an enjoyable time that i thought i should come here and introduce myself.
my experiences with the jws are fairly short.
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Gopher
Sara,
Wow, what a story. Thanks for sharing that much, I know there's much more. This religious bigotry (hatred) from people who claim their primary attribute is "love" is surely puzzling and can be very difficult to endure. And even more so when human health (like your husband's) is on the line.
I hope your husband is and stays healthy, and maybe if he posts out here he can experience some of that same 'relief' from sharing with an empathetic group. (Most of us, anyhow, are empathetic!!) This is a good place to come, express yourself, and get past some of the sad experiences imposed on us by our contact with the JW's.
Welcome to the board!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
"Der Fuehrer's Face" (or Bin Laden)
by Gopher inspike jones was kind of a "weird al yankovic" for the world war 2 era.
while hitler was still firmly in control of europe, jones sang this parody song, and it became a smash hit!
) right in der fuhrer's face .
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Gopher
Spike Jones was kind of a "Weird Al Yankovic" for the World War 2 era. While Hitler was still firmly in control of Europe, Jones sang this parody song, and it became a SMASH hit!
Anyone who didn't follow Hitler was in deep trouble. (Much like our good pal Osama Bin Laden.)
So subtitute "Bin Laden" for "Der Fuehrer" whereever possible. And remember the Bronx cheer, Phhhhhft!
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This song was without a doubt Disney's most popular wartime accompishment. After the short was produced, the song was picked up and made even more popular by Spike Jones and his City Slickers. For those who have never heard the song, the "phhhht" should be delivered with as loud and as juicy a rasberry as possible.
DER FUEHRER'S FACE
Spike Jones bandWhen der Fuehrer says, "We ist der master race"
We HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in der Fuehrer's face
Not to love Der Fuehrer is a great disgrace
So we HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in der Fuehrer's face
When Herr Göbbels says, "We own der world und space"
We HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in Herr Göring's face
When Herr Göring says they'll never bomb this place
We HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in Herr Göring's faceAre we not the supermen
Aryan pure supermen
Ja we ist der supermen
Super-duper supermen.Ist this Nutzi land not good?
Would you leave it if you could?
Ja this Nutzi land is good!
Vee would leave it if we couldWe bring the world to order
Heil Hitler's new world order
Everyone of foreign race will love der Fuehrer's face
When we bring to der world disorderWhen der Fuehrer says, "We ist der master race"
We HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in der Fuehrer's face
When Der Fuehrer says, "We ist der master race"
We HEIL! (phhht!) HEIL! (phhht!) Right in der Fuhrer's faceGopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
9
10 years since my father died
by hippikon init's been over 10 years now since my father died.
i was a jw at the time.
i (foolishly) felt relieved at the time thinking that now he would get a resurrection and wouldn't die at armageddon.
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Gopher
Hippikon,
I feel total empathy over having "lost half your life" and your supposed "friends". Isn't it something, we TRY to do what we THINK is right, only to get swallowed up by an organization that takes total advantage and control?
I'm with think41, as far as the idea that the REMAINDER of your life (and what we build with it) will be far more important than the past. You are a good father and have contributed many worthwhile things to the board (not BORG) including scanning of the WT Study articles for our examination and entertainment!
Even though all of us who answered (so far) are from America, really we are all close in our feelings through this discussion board. Everyone who has posted before is a HIGH QUALITY friend and helps me know that the existence of this board is truly worthwhile, even though there be naysayers during times of turmoil, name-calling and folks dropping out (though they ALWAYS seem to come back).
Without too much more philosophizing, you get out of this discussion board what you put into it. I think your hopeful last statement about 'friends' out here can absolutely be true, because you're willing to give of yourself out here, and that's appreciated!
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910) -
15
No more Judical Committee
by STRUGGLE inhi rollercoaster, i am here and i am df'd.
very long story about that one.
in essence i told the elders about themsleves.
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Gopher
Vita,
Yes! Gambling is a disfellowshipping offense. They say you are coveting your neighbors belongings (money, that is) and you are greedy if you gamble. No leniency, gambling is gambling! Get that judicial machine rolling, stat! Remember "No greedy persons inherit the kingdom", so let's root it out while it's an inch tall.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)