Posts by Gopher

it noticed something i found interesting: a curious reaction to the word or concept of organisation amongst us apostates.. it seems whenever the word "organisation", or the concept of "becoming organised" is mentioned, we shy away, repulsed or antagonised.

there are reactions like "i just left a high control group, i don't want anything to do with organisations again.".

Gopher

my dos centavos:

Other threads today have shown that JW.COM already has a powerful influence on WT Society policy and activity, whether anyone in the Borg wants to admit it. Latest example: The UN/NGO membership scandal, and the quick back-pedalling announced yesterday 10/10/01.

I think we're fine as we are... There are a few effective spokespeople from here whose influence is felt...they push the right buttons, write the right letters, etc.

I'd rather think of us as a loose association sharing a common interest rather than a formal organization.

To me, we have an amazing combination of freedom + effectiveness.

(Edited to correct formatting)

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

29

Ex-dubs in Southern Ca.

by jterfehr in

jw
friends

any ex dubs in the so cal area?

i am in the desert near palm springs.

just had two families over last night (ex dubs all) and we had a great time.

Gopher

JonnieMae,

Welcome to the board. "Dub" is a term you'll find quite a bit on this board. It is a nickname for one of Jehovah's Witnesses... Here's why:

JW = Jehovah's Witness
W = double u
dub = short for "double u"

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

29

Ex-dubs in Southern Ca.

by jterfehr in

jw
friends

any ex dubs in the so cal area?

i am in the desert near palm springs.

just had two families over last night (ex dubs all) and we had a great time.

Gopher

Intro,

If Michael Hedges had teamed up with "Brother" George Benson to record an album, would they be known as Benson and Hedges???

Edited to say: I just read that Mr. Hedges passed away in 1997 at the age of 44, and he was an outstanding acoustical guitarist. I don't think he ever paired with Benson, but it might have been interesting.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

8

DF for apostasy the same?

by snoopy in

jw
friends

i just finished reading crisis of conscience.

wow.

i was wondering if the procedure for disfellowshipping on the grounds of apostasy is still the same.

Gopher

Snoopy,

Check back in your copy of Crisis of Conscience. You'll see that one of the first points that caused Ray Franz to question the WT Society was chronology. He studied this topic extensively in preparation for his authorship of the subject in the "Aid to Bible Understanding" published by the WT Society in 1971 (or thereabouts). The WT teaching is that Jerusalem was first destroyed in 607 BCE, and they hold to this date because it sets up their "seven Gentile times which end exactly in 1914" viewpoint. However, all secular historians point to 586 BCE as the reliable date for the first destruction of Jerusalem.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

8

DF for apostasy the same?

by snoopy in

jw
friends

i just finished reading crisis of conscience.

wow.

i was wondering if the procedure for disfellowshipping on the grounds of apostasy is still the same.

Gopher

Snoopy,

Read this thread from this discussion board from May 2001: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=5721&site=3#67019

The Society through its Watchtower and Kingdom Ministry articles have continued to warn against "independent thinking"...Notice, not spreading your independent thoughts, but even HAVING independent thoughts!!! Something to think about??? It's up to you!!

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

31

Hey There ! All You Disfellowshipped Ones!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is your anger with the jw religion due mainly to the fact that you have been df'd?

is it possible that persons who post here who are not disfellowshipped can feel as angry as those who are being shunned and who are therefore being effectively gagged?.

is the df'ing policy of the wtbts the main reason that ex-jw's seem to go all out to get other witnesses out of the org?

Gopher

This is one of the best threads. What great comments, all!

I too am DF'd since May 2000, don't feel like commenting on the dubious merits of the case, just glad that it opened my eyes to the nature of the beast I'd been cooperating with for 39 years since I was born.

I don't ever want to return, even though pressure from relatives "still in" makes the heart lean that way, if only for a minute. The fight is hard, but the right choice is for freedom.

I've been told I'm angry or bitter for sticking to my decision not to re-associate with JW's. Really, now! I have never been happier. I don't even hold my committee very responsible, they were just following a script provided for them by the organization.

This thread PROVES that those who say exJW's are bitter Witness-haters are not telling the truth! Welcome to the board Garybuss and Tyydyy, what wonderful posts...Factual, not harsh - and yet so damning of the way the organization (which we all had trusted to guide us into paradise) actually fails its people.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

38

You are harming loyal JW

by beroea in

jw
friends

you are harming loyal jw.

i have been taken a closer look at many of the posters here on this board.

most of you are very critic about the jw and special about doctrines.

Gopher

Beroea's post was tongue-in-cheek. Secondly, I don't believe English is Beroea's first language. So give Beroea a little break here.

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)

10

First century disciples vs the Society

by Leander in

jw
friends

i'm having a discussion with my wife about the society's changes in doctrines and failed predictions.

she basically is using the argument that the society is fallible just like the the first century disciples.

so this neatly excuses the society for any erroneous teachings or failed prophecies.. how would you counter-argue that type of reasoning?

Gopher

Leander,

See Luke 19:11 and Acts 1:6,7 for examples.

Luke 19:11

While they were listening to these things he spoke in addition an illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly.

Acts 1:6,7

When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" He said to them, "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."

GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)