Posts by Chalam

23

Are scriptures missing from the Bible?

by tika in

i have heard that the bible as we know it today is not in it's entirety.

i feel that this is deceptive and had people argue that the present day bible is how god intended us to read it because that is all we need/ it is presented how he wants us to have it.

i don't buy that and feel that god wouldn't "hide" any of the holy scriptures as men have done.

Chalam

In a word "no".

If you want an informed view as to that answer then listen here

http://tapecenter.scottsdalebible.com/sermons/090405SysTheo.MP3

http://tapecenter.scottsdalebible.com/sermons/091105SysTheo.MP3

http://www.theopedia.com/Wayne_Grudem

Regards,
Stephen

36

144 000 blasted by the MATH (WT lying again)

by hamsterbait in

i just took nathan natas chart for numbers of memorial partakers since 1935.. i worked out that on average 823 new partakers have been added every year since 1936, whilst on average 716 have been dying each year.. what is especially interesting, is that when the total of new partaker numbers almost exactly matches that given in w96 15/8 p31 for 1935, is in the year 1995 - they year they began to deliberately create the fog around the "generation" teaching.

(i used actual figures, not averages here).

i am now convinced that they have been paving the way for the feb 15 noolite since then.. i disregarded the figure for 1935 itself, since the witchtower gives two figures for partakers -.

Chalam

Hi again greendawn,
Cool.

I was reading this today and thought of this thread. Seems like it explains the position of the Jews and Gentiles in relation to God very well.

Ephesians 2 (New International Version)

Made Alive in Christ

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

One in Christ

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Regards,
Stephen

66

The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?

by Maddie in

jw
friends

with the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".

i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.

it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.

Chalam

Hi,
There seem to be a range of views from total disbelief people who are familiar with the gift. For those who are interested in the gift then have a read. I think it is pretty self explanatory but if you have questions then please ask.

1 Corinthians 14 (New International Version)

Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.[b] 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[c] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[d] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[e] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written:
"Through men of strange tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,"[f] says the Lord.

22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[g] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand[h]comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

Orderly Worship

26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

Regards,
Stephen

16

straightened out but not going to be a liar

by helricha in

jw
friends

i've straightened myself out concerning what i'm going to do about my life.

i am going to be reinstated (hopefully), just to get in and then fade away.

my problem is that i don't want to lie if i'm asked a direct question.

Chalam

Hi,
"I've straightened myself out concerning what I'm going to do about my life. I am going to be reinstated (hopefully), just to get in and then fade away."

I just wondered why you want to do that? Is it so you can be in contact with you family?

Regards,
Stephen

57

Are Seventh-Day Adventists a better Church to belong to than being a JW

by jwfacts in

a lot of exjws need an answer to "where else to go?

" and some people seem to need to belong to an organization.

doing some research on answers.yahoo.com i noticed that both jws and mormons come in for a lot of criticism for being manipulative cults.

Chalam

Hi,
I don't know much about the SDA but for sure the LDS/Mormons are another cult.

As most ex JWs are really hurt by the organization I would avoid seeking another too quickly.

Instead I would seek God. He is around, He is interested in you and He does want to talk.

So throw away the NWT (only the JWs use it), get any other copy of the Bible that takes your fancy and have a read.

You can even read online. I would start at John but take your choice. For sure don't start at Revelation of Leviticus ;)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=1&version=31

Move right on to Acts and stuff or wherever takes your fancy.

Most of all ask God (He knows you are talking to Him and has many names so you don't need to use 'Jehovah') to send the Holy Spirit to enable you to understand the Bible.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Try reading and praying for a week or two and see if God doesn't respond.

Regards,
Stephen

10

The Bible admits it is errant

by heretic5 in

according to the bible, the bible contains "leaven".. matthew 13:33 another parable spake he unto them; the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. luke 13:21 it is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" is to be avoided.. matthew 16:6 then jesus said unto them, take heed and beware of the leaven of the pharisees and of the sadducees.. mark 8:15 and he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the pharisees, and of the leaven of herod.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" can be avoided by sorting the bible.. deuteronomy 19:15 one witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.. matthew 18:16 but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.. 2 corinthians 13:1 this is the third time i am coming to you.

Chalam

Hi mustobey!

I am not condemming josephs posts but I do agree with you sentiments on the KJB!

Have you tried "The Message" out on interest? I think you might like it ;)

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=65&lang=2#books

Go to the bottom of the page.

Regards,
Stephen

36

144 000 blasted by the MATH (WT lying again)

by hamsterbait in

i just took nathan natas chart for numbers of memorial partakers since 1935.. i worked out that on average 823 new partakers have been added every year since 1936, whilst on average 716 have been dying each year.. what is especially interesting, is that when the total of new partaker numbers almost exactly matches that given in w96 15/8 p31 for 1935, is in the year 1995 - they year they began to deliberately create the fog around the "generation" teaching.

(i used actual figures, not averages here).

i am now convinced that they have been paving the way for the feb 15 noolite since then.. i disregarded the figure for 1935 itself, since the witchtower gives two figures for partakers -.

Chalam

Hi again greendawn,

"Hi again Chalam, in the end we seem to agree on everything and the really important issue of how in essence the JWs reject Jesus, as He said:

"unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will not have eternal life." that is something the JWs do not do except a very small supposedly elite number of them."

Cool! Yes, they are concerned with their own brand of 'works' and getting into the 'Kingdom'. My JW friend said 'I hope I am doing enough to have my name in The Book Of Life'. As with all these works based salvation religious schemes, you never feel you are doing enough. This is my position.

Ephesians 1:13-15 (New International Version)
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

So I am assured I have my guarantee already!

"As for the Jews I suppose you mean those that will eventually accept Jesus because at least all the religious Jews take guidance from the Talmud which is fiercely hostile to Jesus refering to him as the son of a whore (Mary) and a satanic sorcerer that is now burning in hell, such people clearly hate the Christ and will never be part of His kingdom. Not much change from the days of the Pharisee""

As I mentioned before, the Jews are God's chosen people but not all of them throughout history will be saved. Look at what happened to some when they were redeemed from Egypt?

This will explain it all plain and simple.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=8&version=31&context=chapter

JWs believe in a 'replacement theology' which is that the church (or in the JWs case, the 'congregation') have replaced Israel. However, this is another total falsehood. God is not a liar and the 144 000 will all be Jewish, 12 000 from each tribe like the Bible says.

Regards,
Stephen

66

The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?

by Maddie in

jw
friends

with the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".

i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.

it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.

Chalam

Hi onacruse,
Here are the answers.

"Stephen, does your wife know what she is saying when she is speaking in tongues?"

Her mind does not but her spirit does.

"Does the congregation?"

If it is spoken to the whole of the church then someone needs to interpret the tongue (a different gift to speaking).

"Do you?" No gifts arrived for speaking or interpretation yet but I had a prophetic dream about speaking the other week so God hasn't forgotten about me!

"If in the affirmative for any of the above: What language? And what is said?"

As I mentioned before, nearly always it is a heavenly language. The time I heard an earthy language it was a Indian language so I did not understand but the person being prayed over did.

Once again, start here for some info.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter

Regards,
Stephen

66

The Gift of Speaking in Tongues?

by Maddie in

jw
friends

with the increase in evangelical churches there seems to be a lot more emphasis on the practise of "speaking in tongues".

i quite like the way these churches conduct services, with live music and great singing.

it is so different to the kh meetings and like fresh air.

Chalam

Hello Maddie,
"That is creepy, perhaps he was just trying to be clever. Scriptually it is supposed to be a gift and not summoned at will or so I understand it."

The speaking is at will (once one has the gift), just as any other speech is.

This verse is good.

1 Corinthians 14:22
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers

If you wan to know some more of the basics then read here.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter

Regards,
Stephen

36

144 000 blasted by the MATH (WT lying again)

by hamsterbait in

i just took nathan natas chart for numbers of memorial partakers since 1935.. i worked out that on average 823 new partakers have been added every year since 1936, whilst on average 716 have been dying each year.. what is especially interesting, is that when the total of new partaker numbers almost exactly matches that given in w96 15/8 p31 for 1935, is in the year 1995 - they year they began to deliberately create the fog around the "generation" teaching.

(i used actual figures, not averages here).

i am now convinced that they have been paving the way for the feb 15 noolite since then.. i disregarded the figure for 1935 itself, since the witchtower gives two figures for partakers -.

Chalam

Hi greendawn,
Thanks for your post. Please see below.

"Chalam I agree with you that the JWs have marginalised Jesus to an extend that makes their so called Christian nature false and deceptive. They focus almost exclusively on jehovah and to me that exposes their religion as Judaism in disguise."

Well I agree totally regarding Jesus. They demote Him in many ways such as changing all the verses which read "worship" to "obeisance" in the later versions of the NWT. It is no surprise that my Bible says they is one way into God's Kingdom and that is through Jesus.

Also imperative doctrines such as being "born again" and eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus, symbolized in eating break and drinking wine are for only a very select few JWs.

"It's not all about the church, the body, of Christ but rather the organisation of jehovah and they have openly stated that they are the wife of jehovah rather than the bride of the lamb. Sounds like judaism to me."

The Jews have their own issues. They are God's chosen people but Paul clearly lays out that their path into the Kingdom is no different to our now. Romans 9/10/11 is a good place to start to understand this. I think there will be plenty of Jews in the Kingdom but absolutely no Jehovah's Witnesses due to their totally flawed beliefs regarding Jesus.

"But I don't agree with the way you dismiss what are no doubt large numbers of honest Christian men and women throughout the Christian era that's nearly 2000 years long. Indeed not all so called Christians are genuine and most are not but even a very small percentage of genuine ones from the vast number of total Christians over two millenia amounts to a very large number. "

I need to check what was discussed before but to make it clear, there will be a vast number of people who have entered the Kingdom through Jesus in the last 2000 years and are saved.

"You may still be influenced by the JW attitude which requires absolute ideological doctrinal purity to validate someone as a christian but that is an extreme view. It's keeping the essence of the Christian ideology that really matters. The JWs themselves have made a total mess of doctrine regarding many issues and they keep changing them silently admitting that the previous versions were erroneous."

Just to make it clear, I have never been a JW or will be! I am only studying their doctrine because I have a friend who is, an extended family member who had one foot in the "Kingdom Hall" and plenty of JWs who have brought their brand of "good news" (usually that millions will die at Armageddon!) to my door.

The issue of changing doctrine is totally important. The WTO keeps changing their mind on many issues (important ones are about Jesus) but this is clearly against the Bible which says that God does not change (Malachi 3:6). The JWs claim this is because of 'further revelation' but how can God keep on contradicting himself?!

"As for faith alone, that will save no one without works to match even if ultimately works themselves on their own can't save anyone either."

Important issue. This explains it all.

Matthew 7 (New International Version)
A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

Regards,
Stephen