to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you have peace!.
as you know i have, for many years now, related to you that i hear the voice of the fine shepherd, the holy one of israel and holy spirit, jaheshua mischajah.
over such years i have received many questions and comments, and engaged in various debates regarding the validity of that name.
"I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message"
Indeed, that is a NIVism, NIV deduct two points
"message" here is logos and is probably more meaningfully rendered "word" IMHO.
20 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
ESV receive on bonus point!
"Their word" is the word of their testimony for Jesus John 4:39, Romans 10:9, Revelation 12:11
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you have peace!.
as you know i have, for many years now, related to you that i hear the voice of the fine shepherd, the holy one of israel and holy spirit, jaheshua mischajah.
over such years i have received many questions and comments, and engaged in various debates regarding the validity of that name.
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
Many thanks :) Gonna be out for a few hours but look forward to reading it.
Blessings,
Stephen
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
brotherdan When I was a JW I had NO idea what Grace was. Debator's view was the one we all had. We THOUGHT that people used the concept of "Grace" to justify sin. How wrong we all were! Grace is NOT an excuse to sin. If someone wants to view it as an excuse, then they really are showing themselves to NOT be taking advantage of the Grace of God.
Agreed.
Grace comes not only by knowledge but also experience. Personally, I am experiencing God's grace more and more, that after all is the Christian walk.
Paul has long put the JW notion of grace being a license to sin in the garbage bin.
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
Curtains and I think the word charity comes from charis/grace. Charity is given to people not because they are undeserving but because the giver wants to be generous and loving.
Indeed http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/5485.htm :)
Good to have you here!
Blessings,
Stephen
to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!
as you may or may not be aware, i recently posted a thread regarding the relevancy of the name of our lord.
in that thread, and one or two others, i mentioned the language of our lord... and thus, the accurate rendering of that name.
AGuest I have to profess to you, however, that I am not born again... yet. I am awaiting that birth, however, when I am born... in the spirit. Only then can I enter [fully] into the kingdom. For now, I am just a seed... which my Lord is still "watering." But I understand what you mean... and I thank you... for YOUR love.
Shelby, firstly, although I do not agree with some things you say I want to say I certainly do not approve of the berating you are receiving from some posters lately. I pray my own posts are flavoured with love and grace :)
Regarding rebirth, I stated to Reniaa recently that it is the essence of being a Christian. Without being reborn one is dead in one's sins. Here is is again with an extra verse added.
3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within [ a ] you."
Footnotes:John 3:6 (English Standard Version)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you,and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins
Either you are born again and and made alive with Christ or you are dead in your sins.
Do not ignore the simplicity of the gospel or listen to those with their false gospels and false hopes.
There is one hope, one Mediator, one way, one truth, one life, one Saviour, one Lord, one God, one King.
Blessings,
Stephen
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
There are one or two points mentioned in this thread about the "perfection" of JWs in the millenium The JW belief "death pays for sin"
Not of course that all JWs are deemed to make it, some fail to make perfection and "die at Armageddon".
I keep my understanding of WT theology to a minimum.
Better to be armed with the word and a discerning spirit rather than attempt to get to the bottom of the shifting sand of the WT. We know there is no Rock under there 1 Corinthians 3:11
Sure, "underserved kindness" in the NWT might bear some resemblance to grace but the change is not without significance. Everything is done by the WT is to keep JWs from the Grace of our Lord and Saviour Ephesians 6:24, 2 Corinthians 13:14 , 2 Thessalonians 2:16
The meaning is totally lost of Ephesians 2:8 on JWs because they don't believe the scripture but what the WT says.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.
i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.
lutherans say.
Welcome Lily Pie!
The first thing you need to know is that "grace" does not appear in the JW bible, the New World Translation.
Grace is not taught, it is not part of the WT doctrine, indeed the process of "salvation" for JWs is long and difficult. JW need to keep up a full portfolio of "works", not only through this life but also the millennium and then survive Armageddon and judgement day to make it to "paradise earth". Most of all then need to follow their mediator, the "Faithful And Discrete Slave" (The WatchTower) wherever it leads and whatever it dictates.
Secondly, the true WT doctrine can been seen by the fruit. JWs are caught up in the falsehood of salvation by works, no doubt about it. My JW friend said to me once "I hope I am doing enough to have my name written in the Book of Life".
Those who are born again only need to keep their faith in Jesus Ephesians 1:13, Galatians 3:26, Hebrews 10:39
One can enter the Kingdom without works 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 but hopefully most will have an inheritance Ephesians 2:10, Matthew 6:19-21
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
ok so my husband and i sat down and i told him that i never totally got it that we as jehovah's witnesses believe that jesus died only for the 144,000. i showed him 1 tim 2:5, john 6:40, john 20:31, gal 1:4, gal 2:20 where it clearly says he died for everyone.
he said jesus died because we need a new covenant and he gave me jeremiah 31:31 then he went to heb 8:6-9 where we need a new covenant and the ended at luke 22:28 where jesus is talking to his disciples and they were part of the 144,000 so clearly jesus was meaning the new covenant was intended for the 144,000. jesus did give is life clearly for all of us as long as we are in contact with his chosen 144,000. if we ever stop believing in the anointed we are toast.
now my husband has been in the "truth" since 1972 and was an elder for 32 years.
Ding You might ask your husband about John 6:53-56.
life is to short, indeed, try him with this one.
53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
I posed these two verses to the last two JWs who came to my door and asked them in passing the break and wine how they had life in them and were to be raised up on the last day?
They told me it was for the 144, 000. I told them Jesus didn't say that but he said "you have no life in you".
They told me they were happy with the teachings of the WT. I told them I was happy with the teachings of Jesus and eating His flesh and drinking His blood of the New Covenant, poured out once for all.
Blessings,
Stephen
