It's been said that Bible teaches that there are two places where human souls may go after death. Actually, that statement is not 100% true. In the book of Ecclesiastes, one finds no concept or notion of any post-death existence or "afterlife." The dead are spoken of as being utterly unconscious in regard to everything. They know nothing. They feel nothing. They are aware of nothing at all. In fact, the whole idea of an afterlife developed quite late in Jewish thought/philosophy.
Rapunzel
JoinedPosts by Rapunzel
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120
Christians: I would like an answer, please.
by changeling inon another thread i asked: .
"f i do not renounce my atheism, repent and start believing in and worshipping the christian god, what will happen to me?".
i do not want your judgement or your opinion i want to know what your church/faith teaches on the subject or the fate of unbelievers.. no platitudes, please.
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J.W.'s Should "Hall" (Haul) Themselves Into 21rst Century
by Rapunzel inreading another thread about how the organization is not particularly successful in its effort to preach the gospel and news of kingdom, especially in developing and politically/culturally isolated nations and regions, it ocurred to me that the winessess are essentially using methods which are far outdated and very ineffective or non-productive.. so i was wondering if they could help further their own cause by going "high tech.".
i wonder: how much does a satellite cost?
is the cost laughably prohibitive for them?
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Rapunzel
Basically, the Witnesses are doing everything "ass backward" - they make people do things that they don't want to do [door2door, being a prime example]; and they neglect to do what they should do ["church" [or congregation] brunches/suppers; child/youth activities in parallel with the meetings schedule, after all, why inflict torture on a kid by making him/her sit through those hideously boring meetings?; commmunity service and outreach programs; etc.].
Again, the analogy may be somewhat tenuous [and trite], but it will serve me just as well: A branch or vine cut off from the tree cannot survive very long. In many cases, things that have become isolate tend to wither, petrify, or ossify.
The thing is that much of what the Witnesses teach, and their methods of operation, are outdated. They may not necessarily be headed for oblivion, because I suppose that there will still exist a certain number of the "faithful" to carry on well into this century, at least. I fear that the Witnesses are headed for something worse than oblivion - utter irrelevancy.
At one time, the whole "Henny Penny/chicken little " idea ["The sky is falling! The sky is falling!] may have attracted people with a certain mindset. And who knows, maybe it can still attract some kinds of people.
But these people tend to get bored quickly and leave if their expectations are not met.
Perhaps the biggest question confronting the Witnesses is: Are there going to be enough "born-ins" to meet the needs of the organization. By all accounts, even many of those born into Witness families are leaving, leaving in droves as they say.
If this is ineed the case, will they be able to attract enough converts? In my view, they not be able to. Essentially, the modus operendi of the Witnesses has not evolved beyond that of mid nineteenth-century/early twentieth-century colportage. They're really nothing other than the little drones who used to lug those portable phonographs around with them as they went door to door. Their "spiel" is still canned and rehearsed. Perhaps they may still be able to hoodwink someone with absolutely no knowledge of the Bible. But upon encountering anyone with possessing even the slightest biblical or historical knowledge, they will be "blown out of the water," as it were; any "argument" that they put forth will be decimated and shreaded. "Babylon fell in the year 607?" POW! "See here. You take a few verses from the 'square hole' of the book of Daniel, and you pound them into the 'round hole' of the Book of Revelations, and you get the 1914 doctrine upon which our entire doctrine rests." POW! Anyone with the slightest inkling will be able utterly defeat a Witness in any debate.
And the irony is, at the very time when information about the Bible is increasing on the Internet and becoming more and more accessible, it seems that the Witnesses themselves are becoming less and less capable or willing to expound upon or defend their own teachings. I mean, what the hell are they to think when the definition of the term "generation" changes two or three times?
As I see it, the Witnesses as an organization are facing a "fork in the road."They can go down either one of two paths. They can either "go mainstream," giving up their contrarian, socially antagonistic ways. Or else, they can totally withdraw and become even more "apocalyptic." If this happens, there is always the danger of something bad happening.
Perhaps this dichotomy is too simplistic. Perhaps there is a third [or even fourth] way available to them. It just seems me that at this point in their movement's history, they are going to have to make big changes. Stasis would not seem to be an option. It will be interesting to see what happens. For their sake, I hope that wise decisions will be made.
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J.W.'s Should "Hall" (Haul) Themselves Into 21rst Century
by Rapunzel inreading another thread about how the organization is not particularly successful in its effort to preach the gospel and news of kingdom, especially in developing and politically/culturally isolated nations and regions, it ocurred to me that the winessess are essentially using methods which are far outdated and very ineffective or non-productive.. so i was wondering if they could help further their own cause by going "high tech.".
i wonder: how much does a satellite cost?
is the cost laughably prohibitive for them?
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Rapunzel
Perhaps my "toothpaste analogy" was fallacious in that "selling" or marketing a religion is quite different than selling a toothpaste.
And yet I cannot help but think that there does exist some corralary between the two, however tenuous it may be.
My point is that certain churches [and museums and universities] are indeed beginiing to market themselves. The basic idea is: Why should I visit, or attend, this church [or university, or museum] as opposed to that one? There are alot of churches, and other institutions, that are competing for my attention. There is also the basic fact that a person tends to follow the religion of his/her parents. There are many more children born into the Roman Catholic or Protestant churches than there are being born into the Witness organization.
Although the mercantile/merchandising aspect is by no means the sole factor when it comes to choosing a religion, I believe that this is in fact by no means a negligible factor.
The Watchtower has a quite a significant legal staff on hire. It seems to me that they could do with less lawyers and more experts in marketing and sales, which would not preclude the hiring of psychologists. After all, marketing does involve quite a bit of psychology. This fact has long been recognized. There is a huge amount of psychology involved in marketing. What advertising essentially does is to create a need where none had previously existed. Advertising consists of convincing people that they need something that they really don't need. What else is advertising but that?
It may sound as if I am being flippant or ironic. In fact, I'm not; I am considering the issue from the "Borg's" point of view.
Despite their "official website," the Witnesses are essentially using nineteenth-century techniques to market themselves. Going door to door "peddling their wares" like nineteenth-century colporteurs is does not exactly furnish maimum returns on their investment. Again, I'm not being flippant. It is in their own best interests to "repackage" their "product." They should take a close look at the methods of the successful churches. What are these churches doing right? If religion is indeed a "snare and racket," as Rutherford claimed, they may as well come out with a new and more efficient snare. They need a better "trap" to snare all the "pigeons." After all, more getting more people to "sign on to" the religion equals more money for the Society.
Essentially we are in an era of "replacability" where any one product [including a religion, to a certain extent] can be replaced by any other product of the same type or sort.
Again I realize that religion is an extremely complex psych-social phenomenon. "Selling" religion to people is quite unlike selling them toothpaste or cars. And, yet, there is definitely a psychological aspect to it all. For their own best interests, the Watchtower should try to figure out why some churches are marketing themselves better than others.
In my view, the "no blood" policy has to go. And the entire "1914-this generation shall by no means pass away" is bogus, outdated, and -what's worse - ineffective. Not even the Witnesses themselves believe any longer. The Witnesses need to figure out exactly what it is that people are looking for when it comes to religion. Maybe, at one time, it was the thing to obscurantist, apocalyptic, and contrary. But maybe now, this is no longer what most people want, or what most people want. This is an issue for them to decide.
It just that going door to door pawing off their cheap books and magazines is one terrific waste of time and resources, both from an environmetalist and humane point of view. In other words, they're wasting a lot of trees, to produce ton upon ton of "printed materials" that people either cannot read or don't want to read. It's a waste of resources "feeding into" one enormous waste of time.
The saddest thing is that the Watchtower is wasting its single greatest source of "capital" - that is to say the people within the organization. They're squandering countless man-[and woman] hours on an effort that is basically fruitless. Even a shoddy product can be made to sell well if it is "re-packaged." If your main goal is make converts in order to bring in profits, I would think that it would be in your best interests to so effectively.
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J.W.'s Should "Hall" (Haul) Themselves Into 21rst Century
by Rapunzel inreading another thread about how the organization is not particularly successful in its effort to preach the gospel and news of kingdom, especially in developing and politically/culturally isolated nations and regions, it ocurred to me that the winessess are essentially using methods which are far outdated and very ineffective or non-productive.. so i was wondering if they could help further their own cause by going "high tech.".
i wonder: how much does a satellite cost?
is the cost laughably prohibitive for them?
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Rapunzel
Reading another thread about how the Organization is NOT particularly successful in its effort to preach the gospel and news of kingdom, especially in developing and politically/culturally isolated nations and regions, it ocurred to me that the winessess are essentially using methods which are far outdated and very ineffective or non-productive.
So I was wondering if they could help further their own cause by going "high tech."
I wonder: How much does a satellite cost? Is the cost laughably prohibitive for them? Or, could they afford to buy one, or two, if they wanted to buy one? I wonder about this. Who has the right to put up a satellite into space? Can private organizations and companies do so? Or do only national governments have the right? Is there some international group or agency which oversees the launching of satellites into space? I know that satellites operate at different levels of orbit, and at different distances from Earth. Does approval to launch one depend on the level at which the satellite orbits the Earth?
I also know that even if a particular group does not have own satellite, they can sometimes use the services of an already-existing one. If the Witnesses wanted to, could they come to such an agreement with a government to use a satellite?
Do you think that the Witnesses have the technical savvy to "launch" such a project? Could they hire and pay people who do have the know-how?
When considering the problem of reaching people in developping or isolated nations, there is still the problem of reception or receiving the satellite's signals. Supposing the Witnesses could launch a satellite, that would solve only the transmission aspect. There is still the question of reception.
However, as we know, while the price of gas is sky-rocketing, the prices of computers and other electronics continue to lower and lower. I wonder: In the future, will it be theoretically possible to produce and sell a basic, "bare-bones" personal computer/satellitereceiver for 100$ For 50$? For less than 10$?
I have also read about so-called "micro-loans" extended to people [usually, but not always, women] so that they can start their own little business. These "micro-loans" are often less than a thousand U.S. dollars. And often, these loans furnish great "returns" on the invested money.
What if the Organization extended such ''micro-loans" to people? Think of the benefits that they could reap, not only financially, but in terms of good will. If these micro-loans are successful, [and there is every reason to believe so], think of the benefits the Society could reap. They would greatly enhance and enrich the lives of many people in many communities. These small "micro-businesses" could eventually grow into major companies. What are now world-wide, mega-conglomates in Japan and Korea [such as Honda and Samsung] started off literally as one-garage affarirs run by one or two people.
Of course, this cannot and will be the case for every little business launched by a "micro-loan" provided by the Society. Still the potential benefits/profits for the Witness society are enormous, staggering. If the Witness organization extended "micro-loans" to people living in developing countries, they could get an enormous investment on their return.
There is a very interesting book whose title is something like Branding. It describes the phenomenon whereby organizations such as churches, universities, and museums "market themselves." They make an analogy from toothpaste. In all truth, basically all toothpaste is the same. TAll doed essentially the same thing. The whole trick is in branding. A company must set its own toothpaste apart in the mindsofconsumers, because in the lab, toothpaste is toothpaste, is toothpaste [the same is true for virtually any other "product," which includes religion].
To a certain degree, Witnesses already do set themselves apart. The only problems is that they usually do in a negative way. For example, in regard to blood transfusions, the Witness leaders might ask themselves if adopting a viewpoint that may have been acceptable 150 years ago [or 2000 years ago] might be inappropriate in our day and age.
And that's just one example.
I think that there is one thing for sure. In order to thrive [or even survive], the Witnesses will have to "hall" [haul] themselves into the twenty-first century. I know that it sounds cynical and crass [becuase it is], but the truth is that there are a lot religions out there. There are more and more each day. Moreover, the "globalization" factor will have a great influence on matters. In the U.S., the various religions have always had to compete in the "marketplace." With the globalization effect, the situation can only become more and more competative.
Traditionally, universities and museums have not had to market themselves. This is no longer the case. The old men in Brooklyn [or their immediate successors] will have to soon start thinking "outside the box." They will soon have to start integrating new technology and new techniques. Simply building faster and faster printing presses will not suffice. Don't they realize how many people in the world lack the skills to decipher even their magazines?
Perhaps satellite technology and micro-loans are not the best way. Or, perhaps, it could be the case that these two methods are viable, but may have to be supplemented by other techniques. But I think that there is one thing for sure - the Witnesses will have to adapt to the times.
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Statistical evidence against WTS fulfillment of Mat24:14. Simple argument.
by Awakened at Gilead injehovahs witnesses are proud to point out that they are fulfilling the prophecy at matthew 24:14. jws are quick to point out that part of the purpose of the preaching work is so that jehovah can take note of how people respond to the witnessing, and thus can decide if they are worthy of survival or not.
last year, jws spent 1.4 billion hours in their preaching work.
so if we take: 6.6 billion people.
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Rapunzel
If you read the Witnesses' annual "Yearbook" in which they list the various nations in which they conduct their "ministry," you'll notice about fifteen nations and territories that are NOT listed [Afghanistan and North Korea come readily to my mind}.
Technically, the Witnesses do make the generic, catch-all category of "other," which theoretically includes those nations into which the Witnesses are forbidden to even enter. But it is highly doubtful indeed that the Witnesses have ever made, or will ever be able to make, any significant progress in these nations. The political/cultural forces blocking them are far too strong.
I would suppose that people living in such nations will have to get an "Escape-from-Amageddon, Collect-$200 card" whenever the end of the world comes. Who knows? Maybe in their respective nations, with $200, they might even be able to buy a gallon or two of gasoline.
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PITY THE CHILD/ favourite musicals
by tijkmo ini love musicals - and im not even gay.. phantom, les mis, miss saigon, evita, aspects of love, .
and songs like you'll never walk alone, old man river, papa can you hear me/a peice of sky, choke me up every time.. but my favourite is chess...music by the boys from abba .. and one particular song is right out of the pink floyd songbook musically and lyrically (including a gilmouresque solo - and rumoured to be played by him) - pity the child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0jrld6hkhy.
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Rapunzel
I like - "Hair"; "Jesus Christ, Superstar"; "Tommy"; and "Quadraphenia." Needless to say, I really like Pete Townsend and "The Who."
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Is the JW Memorial meeting a Satanic denial of Christ
by passwordprotected in7 million jws.
all sat in their kingdom halls, their children at their side.
the date is nisan 14.. .
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Rapunzel
In the words of the great Dr. Johnson, the witnesses' behavior should not be ascribed to any deliberate Satanic intentions, but rather to "ignorance, dear madam, sheer ignorance."
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Survival of Human Consciousness Beyond Death
by Rapunzel into anyone's knowledge, has there been any scientific research into the question of whether human consciousness can survive beyond death?
i am referring to research studies conducted by neurologists, neuro-biologists, and neuro-physiologists.
as far as i know, reputable scientific studies feature such factors as control groups.
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Rapunzel
Hi Cas - Thank you for responding so thoughtfully to all of my questions.
In regard to the question of digital cameras in general, I wonder about them [and mine are real questions, not rhetorical ones]. Never having owned one myself [That may sound strange, but it's true - I have never owned a digital camera. I suppose that I'm not much of a "shutterbug"], I wonder if digital cameras are essentially and fundamentally better than film-roll cameras. Are digital cameras in any way superior to film-roll cameras? That is why I wish that someone with technical/expert knowledge could contribute to this discussion.
As we know, the old film-roll cameras had their flaws, "double exposures" [if only by accident] being one of them. But I have also read that digital cameras also have their own peculiar flaws. Sometimes factors such as dust-specks and moisture/condensation can "wreak havoc" with digital cameras. If you should have the time and inclination to have these pictures of yours examined by someone with technical/professional expertise, I would be quite curious to hear what he/she had to say. Of course, this is entirely your decision. Who knows? Such an "expert" evaluation might require your "forking over" some cash. In which case, you have to "weigh things" in your mind to determine if it is worth it to you to have such an analysis done.
In this respect, it is of course a personal decision and entirely yours to make. Speaking strictly for myself, I would probably deem the effort worthwhile, provided the cost of such an assessment were reasonable. Let's put it this way, if I were in possession of photos that contained anomolies similar to the ones in your photos, I would be curious as to the provenance/source/nature of these anomolies and have them examined by some with technical expertise.
I would also like to study up on digital cameras and learn their quirks.
Given the "history" of your residence, I was wondering if you might possibly have access to ultra-violet or infrared equipment. Am I suggesting that you request the service of a "ghost buster?" No, not necessarily. If you ever do decide to go that route, I have to tell you, caveat emptor, that is to say "Let the buyer beware." I once read somewhere that a lot of "ghost hunters" use entirely the wrong sort of equipment in their "hunts."
You mentioned experiencing the sensation of being tocuched. Once again, there are eerie resonances between what you describe and my experiences. I personally have not had such an experience for a long time, since I was a child. However, as I describe in an earlier post on this same thread, I remember being quite frightened as a child. Although there was no obvious malicious intent in the touches that I experienced, I can distinctly remember lying on my back and feeling some touch me on my dorsal side. Never a caress on my face. It was always a question of [someone?] touching or patting my back. As I mentioned, I would always "chalk it up" to muscle spasms/twitches or to my "imagination."
There are so many strange things in this world; and it seem that the older I get, the less I understand things. Isn't that ironic? Should it not, rather, be the opposite? Go figure.
I certainly do hope to make contact with my "ghost-spotting" student in Taiwan [in the Chinese language, there is a specific term for people with such an ability], and perhaps I will learn something from her.
Best regards
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What should I do with the old magazines?
by sacolton ini've got two boxes full of watchtower and awake magazines dating back to 2000 maybe abit further.
should i just trash them?
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Rapunzel
There's one more option that I forgot. It is E-bay. Believe it or not, there is actually are market for that shit. Who knows? You may currently be the not-so-proud owner of an issue that someone is specifically searching for, although it is admittedly difficult to envisage a person who would actually be hunting for such bilge.
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What should I do with the old magazines?
by sacolton ini've got two boxes full of watchtower and awake magazines dating back to 2000 maybe abit further.
should i just trash them?
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Rapunzel
I know that you won't listen to me, but here goes anyway.
Please don't burn them. Often the chemicals in newsprint contain carcinogens. In general, burning is bad for the environment. As that old saying with picture of the owl goes - "Give a hoot. Don't pollute."
I have no idea if the mags are composed of truly bio-degradable material or not. Should you be able to determine that this is indeed the case, then I would recommend a compost pile. But only if you can determine if they are truly bio-degradable.
If not, the three words are: Recycle. Recycle. Recycle.
In my opinion, burning is not a good option, in spite of the purely psychological satisfaction that it may provide you.