yep, there's no excuse for any of you lot.. if a sister of 106 can auxiliary pioneer last memorial season, so can you.. this ancedote was in the jan km - puke making - what the heck was a 106 year old doing going from door to door, and i mean this literally, not just phone witnessing.. have these people got no sense?
i mean 106 years old and making 50 hours a month - for what?.
if anyone here has the us km, please upload it here as i don't have a scanner..
Does anyone remember the sister in the iron lung? Articles about her appeared in the mags in the 80's I think?
If she could informal witness, conduct bible studies, paint pictures of paradise by holding the paint brush with her mouth . . . .? She was used extensively to guilt trip us. We able-bodied people were always being shamed by people with a disability who were doing more, more, more.
Ah, that old phrase, I remember it all too well . . . . "can you do more?"
rev 1:8 i am the al pha and the ome ga, says jehovah god, the one who is and who was and who is coming, the almighty.
rev 21:5 and the one seated on the throne said: look!
i am the al pha and the ome ga, the beginning and the end.
There is a very interesting and comprehensive essay on commentary press which discusses these very points. Once you click on the link, scroll down to Proposition #14 for a brief discussion on the alpha and omega.
http://www.commentarypress.net/cpn-essays/English/393E168F-0950-4120-9D2A-579FBD53B8A2.html
I agree with some of the other posts here, that although interesting to talk on these finer points of scripture, the main message of the Bible is love. Jesus said it would be the quality that would define his disciples.
American Standard Version - 1Cor 13:1,2 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
i must say the more and more i learn and find my way around my spirituallity the less i use the name jehovah.
it just reminds me of everything i went through, reminds me of the ""bad"" and not the good of god.
it reminds me of hypocracy and mind control.
Hi Stephen - Yes, happy to say that I RSVP'd a long time ago! I was always a Christian before I was a jehovahs witness. At least I got that right!
Yes I did notice that Jesus and God are both referred to as the Alpha and the Omega. I readily admit Jesus divine nature. It can be quite puzzling thinking along the lines of how Jesus and God are connected. I concur with Ray Franz opinion:
Human language, remarkable though it is, is limited to expressing what relates to the human sphere. It could never adequately be used to describe in detail and fullness things of the spirit realm, such as the exact nature of God, the process whereby He could beget a Son, the relationship resulting from such begettal, and similar matters. At the very least, it would take the language of angels, themselves spirit persons, to do this.
kind regards
wildfell
i must say the more and more i learn and find my way around my spirituallity the less i use the name jehovah.
it just reminds me of everything i went through, reminds me of the ""bad"" and not the good of god.
it reminds me of hypocracy and mind control.
Hi LouBelle - Yes, we ARE free. Only those who have been captive in a mind control cult can appreciate the uplifting, joyous feeling of realising that GOD HIMSELF gave us our freedom and intended us to be free.
Stephen mentioned Galations 5. Reading Galations was a revelation for me, it was my 'get out of jail card'. Especially, Gal 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (NIV) Not faith trying to justify itself through law, as was pushed down our throats by the governing body.
kind regards
wildfell
if so, did it bother you that he had been reprooved and forgiven rather than reported to the police?
looloo - I believe that media coverage is scarce because jw's are a minor religion. A 6 million people world-wide religion isn't going to sell a lot of newspapers. Also, affected jw's are scared to contact the media because of the governing body's bully tactics. Even with some media coverage, this is what I have found:
I have tried to talk to jw's about the pedophile problem and the jw pedophile protecting policies, but I have not had heartening results. One thought the children were lying and they deserved to be disfellowshipped (I wanted to scream at this person, oh, yeah, I did!!). One said they didn't want to hear anything "discouraging". Others tried to justify the wt actions. One felt sad for me, that I couldn't look past it. Others just stared at me, like a rabbit in headlights, and made no reply. The sad truth is that heavily indoctrinated jw's cannot/will not be affected by this. I believe that they just marked me as critical of the organisation and bad association.
So I thought, if I can't help them out, then maybe I can stop them going in.
I now tell everyone I can - DON'T TRUST THE JEHOVAHS WITNESSES WHO COME TO YOUR DOOR, ONE OF THEM MAY BE A PEDOPHILE. And I tell them, "spread the word, tell all of your friends".
if so, did it bother you that he had been reprooved and forgiven rather than reported to the police?
Years ago I knew a young jw woman who told me that her annointed PO stepfather had molested her for years. She left home as early as she could. The elders in her cong didn't believe her. Her own mother didn't believe her. However, the stepfather stepped down or was removed ?, but they refused to take any other action against him because they said she didn't have any witnesses. She was vilified for destroying the reputation of a wonderful man. (Sounds familiar, hey?)
A few years later, her cousin (non-jw) came forward with the same accusation. However, she was suing the society, because he was an elder when he had been molesting her. Although she didn't have witnesses either (and my understanding is that two people coming forward independently do not constitute two witnesses), the society acted promptly and ordered his disfellowshipping. Amazing what a letter from your legal representative can accomplish!
And that's not even mentioning the elders/minos/brothers who like the teenage sisters. Any age, as long as it ends in teen.
i must say the more and more i learn and find my way around my spirituallity the less i use the name jehovah.
it just reminds me of everything i went through, reminds me of the ""bad"" and not the good of god.
it reminds me of hypocracy and mind control.
Hi Stephen
I wouldn't keep wt stuff in my home, even as standby toilet paper.
I do believe that the Holy Spirit is revealing things to me from the scriptures. Slowly, slowly. I got help today by your post re John 14:14. That jumped off the page!
Thanks for the offer of help!
kind regards
wildfell
i must say the more and more i learn and find my way around my spirituallity the less i use the name jehovah.
it just reminds me of everything i went through, reminds me of the ""bad"" and not the good of god.
it reminds me of hypocracy and mind control.
Hi Stephen
John 14:14 (New International Version)
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it
Thanks for that scripture. I am sure the nwt did not paraphrase it that way???? Or maybe it did but I was so programmed that I did not see it? I chucked out all jw literature a few months ago, so can't go back to reference it.
Just looked John 14:14 up, and the 'me' is there in the original greek. I have been trying to come to some understanding of the praying to Jesus issue, so this is great. I was brought up in a mainstream church and I prayed to Jesus as a child, but did not know if it was right to do so again. I feel like I have to learn the basics of Christianity again. I was closer to God and the truth of the Bible when I was a member of a mainstream church.
Re jehovah, just a few weeks ago I read an excellent article on the origins of the jehovah name. I will never use jehovah again. I use Yahweh or Father.
i have always been a very social person with many friends....a bit of a partier my whole life.
my wife of 11 years is not like that, and not like me in so many other ways....but hey, we had the third cord in our marriage (not god...wt).
now since i am leper now, i have virtually no social life.
oompa, I would like to say how much I feel for you right now. If I could put in my two cents worth, I would say:
Listen to changeling :
You also have to find away to ease her fears. She is suffering too. She fears losing you.
Let your wife know that you are the same oompa. Tell her that you are totally committed to her and your marriage. Show her that by taking her out to dinner, compliment her (sincerely), buy her a small gift as a surprise, do the dishes and tidy the house while she is at the meetings, put a load of washing on. And if I may be so bold as to reiterate what others have said, please stop drinking. (that is, if you are not already doing these things!!)
My suggestion would be to definately go ahead and plan activities on non-meeting nights. Then, don't just invite her, but tell her you would really like her with you, would she please come? Try and plan something that would interest her too if possible? I really believe in the saying "you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar". Just remember that your wife loves you too. She'll be wanting to please you as well.
You and your wife are both in a time of transition. I just read an article by a motivational speaker who said "Do not apply a permanent solution to a temporary issue." Just something to think about.
I wish you peace, oompa.
kind regards
wildfell
hello folks, how are you ?
i am just about done reading the steve hassan book, " combatting cult mind control".
thought i would share some of the points here for newbies and all others to see just what a person exiting a cult, or jehovah's witnesses might go through psychologically so they can better know how to deal with the various emotions of anger, guilt , and sadness that can accompany leaving the witnesses.
The sense of pain and betrayal is enormous
Hi Flipper, This book sounds like a good read. I should have read something like that months ago. From the beginning of this journey, I was dealing with an enormous amount of distress and anger. I was in that state for a long time. I had been wondering whether I was weak for experiencing these emotions? It's reassuring to know that it's a normal reaction to finding out you have been living a lie generated by some clever and evil con artists. I understand that grieving is always an intense and complex process, but it is a necessary start to a new life. I will survive.
"What seems to help the most is to enable people to realize that positive things did come out of their involvement"
I must disagree with Steve Hassan here. Nothing good can come from being abused (and watching others being abused) mentally, emotionally, spiritually and financially.
