gravedancer

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Posts by gravedancer

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  54

  Will you go to the memorial

  by freeborg in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have never missed a memorial in 20 years of being a jw, but this year will be the first one i miss because i refuse to set foot in any kingdom hall.

  i was wondering how many that post here will attend the memorial and if so why?.

  do you feel pressured into going by family or friends?.

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  gravedancer

  I will be attending the Darwinian Memorial.

  I wish to praise my saviour.
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  9

  Nirvanas, Epiphanies and such...

  by MrMoe in

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  2. friends

  what is the meaning of life?

  what is it to experience true nirvana?

  a revelation?

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  gravedancer

  I am serious here:

  I had an epiphany and that is that there is no epiphany to be had except to live life as a rational person and learn as much about the world around you and about yourself as possible.

  My epiphany so far has included the fact that there is no magic potion, no God, no Devl and no spiritual side.

  Others may vehemently disagree and thats fine. The emperor has to prove he is wearing clothes otherwise I am free to laugh at his funny looking weenie!!!
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  98

  What qualities do men look for in a woman?

  by WildHorses in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i was just wondering.

  so, what do you look for in a woman?.

  lilacs.

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  gravedancer

  Intelligence.
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  14

  Contrarian Ideas

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  maybe it is because i am left handed, first born and received contrarian ideas during my education, but i see some things differently than many here.. 1. jws a cult: i don't think they are a cult.

  i think they are a high control sect.. 2. brain washing: i don't believe that jws are brain washed.

  i think they are indoctrinated if they came in as adults, and i think they were enculcated and enculturated, if they were raised in it.. 3. disfellowshipping: everyone says how terrible and awful it is.

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  gravedancer

  Larc,

  It appears to be a set of semantic differences we are talking about and depending on the source we will receive different interperetations.

  I for one regard all religions as cults. But that is because of my definition of a cult is based on the following criteria as found at http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult

  (PS: I believe this piece was actually written by Jan Goenveld).

  Another great site is this one from the American Family Foundation http://www.csj.org/aff/aff_about.htm or http://www.csj.org/?37,11

  and also Trancenet http://www.trancenet.org/

  But for me it comes down to 1 primary factor: FEAR.

  If a religious group can control you by means of fear then they are a cult. I have yet to find a religion that does not do this (especially among the "Christian" faiths). The whole basis of Christianity is fear - obey God or die. When using fear of death, shunning or anything else to control behaviour we have a cult in the making.
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  41

  The Improbability of God

  by gravedancer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  irishmen blow each other up in his name.

  arabs blow themselves up in his name.

  imams and ayatollahs oppress women in his name.

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  gravedancer

  I am fast beginning to see why in the end the only response from Farkel was stuff like "you are a fuckwit or a dipshit".

  To those of you who replied in earnestness on the thread thanks. It is nice to know that there are thinking people who can discuss things like grownups.

  If the God-people cannot respond with rational thinking are we to assume they are incapable or that they are still brain washed?
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  95

  Please form a judicial committee...

  by SexyTeen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  seeing that most of those on this forum love to judge others (although the complaint is that jws do the same thing), i am willing to go through a judicial committee.. if you see fit not to forgive, please disfellowship me and shun me.

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  gravedancer

  We dont form committee's we are much harsher than that - we will email each other about you...
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  255

  Going out with a bang

  by LittleToe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after much deliberation, i decided to go "out" at the end of a public talk.

  it didn't go down too well, but at least i was able to give some of my reasons for leaving.. i've put some of the details on my homepage.

  i'll update it more when i get the time and the strength.

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  gravedancer

  Little Toe,

  I am puzzled about one thing. The pic on your website shows you with a beard. Yet you claim to have been raised a JW and have been an active elder until January 6th 2002.

  So is that not your real pic? If so is it old? If not how did they allow a bearded man to give public talks?

  GD
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  14

  Contrarian Ideas

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  maybe it is because i am left handed, first born and received contrarian ideas during my education, but i see some things differently than many here.. 1. jws a cult: i don't think they are a cult.

  i think they are a high control sect.. 2. brain washing: i don't believe that jws are brain washed.

  i think they are indoctrinated if they came in as adults, and i think they were enculcated and enculturated, if they were raised in it.. 3. disfellowshipping: everyone says how terrible and awful it is.

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  gravedancer

  Mr Larc,

  Hope you slept well and that you enjoyed the wake-up menu. No I am not stalking you - just debating you as I preceive your intelligence and the manner where you are one of the few who can argue ideas rather than insult the other person. You are a technician?? Why do I perceive that? Because of the technical differences you perceive in things. To quote you:
  

  1. JWs a cult: I don't think they are a cult. I think they are a high control sect.

  Pray tell me what the diference is?

  Using the dictionary:
  cult (klt)n.
  A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

  It doesn't take too much massaging to stuff JW's into that box does it? One could probably point to some issues of semantic definition but I would be interested in seeing your substantiated technical claim, sir.

  2. Brain Washing: I don't believe that JWs are brain washed. I think they are indoctrinated if they came in as adults, and I think they were enculcated and enculturated, if they were raised in it.

  I would postulate, sir, that while we could find more palatable terms they touch and crossover with the term "brainwashing". In reference to such I post as evidence the following 2 articles: http://www.dcd.net/NBP/persuasn.html and (my favorite on the subject) http://www.factnet.org/ (look at this page on that site http://www.factnet.org/coercion.html?FACTNet).

  Disfellowshipping: Everyone says how terrible and awful it is. Well, what did you expect? You knew the rules. You would have done the exact same thing when you were a true believer. If you get so much as a hello, you should consider yourself lucky

  Sir, you almost convinced me but then I thought about it for half a second longer. Perhaps if they removed "disfellowshipping" there powers of mind control would be diminised. Whenever coercive psychological systems are employed by "confusing, intimidating and silencing their victims, those who profit from these systems evade exposure and prosecution for actions recognized as harmful and which are illegal in most countries such as: fraud, false imprisonment, undue influence, involuntary servitude, intentional infliction of emotional distress, outrageous conduct and other tortuous acts." (source: Dr. Margaret Singer professor emeritus at the University of California at Berkeley the acknowledged leading authority in the world on mind control and cults.)

  The blood issue: All religions and governments require that you be willing to die for something. Their particular choice is peculiar, but the request for your life is not unique, by any means.

  You state a fact, but it is one which is missing the real issue. That's like saying "we all die at some point" (a fact you agree) but if I add "...so why don't we all just kill ourselves now and drink the kool-aid?" Now I am using the first fact as a basis for influence to a certain action. This is a common technique in the psychology of influence. I won't get into the specific issues on the blood doctrine as this is not what this is about.

  I would like to conclude with a general impression of your post, sir (one you can score or clairfy for me). You are using the technique of "minimizing by comparison" as well as attempting to reframe the issues. While these techniques can be effective in treating victims they can also be destructive when victims are told that they are over-reacting and/or things aren't really as bad as they thought they were. Isn't there some danger to just throwing this type of post out there? Or was your intent to foster debate?

  Respectfully,
  GD
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  16

  Destroy or Reform the WT?

  by ThiChi in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i ask this question: lets say for a moment the jw world does come crashing down (very unlikely).

  who would fill the void left by the jws?

  more moonies?

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  gravedancer

  Changing doctrines will do nothing.

  If you cannot change the thinking then get rid of dubdom.
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  5

  Who are these people?

  by sf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  < http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/dg001-025/dg022aclu.ncco/dg022.aclu.ncco.htm.

  who are nick falbo, harry duke, william edward lowry, matias ochada, james warner rankin, raymond sadoski, joe sekerek, frank severino, robert smith, vincent smith, herbert weatherbee, enis, merle and victor willhite?.

  skally.

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  gravedancer

  .