Posts by Greenpalmtreestillmine

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

One,

Are you asking why I believe the transmitters of the flood account thought it was a global one? Or are you asking why I believe the Bible in general?

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Narkissos,

Job felt sorry for himself and exalted his own righteousness. His friends stepped in and by their insistence that Job must have done something wrong to incur God's punishment they unintentionally encouraged him to declare again and again his own righteousness. Bildad in 8: "If your children sinned against him, he delivered them into the power of their transgression." Wrong conclusions. Elihu was critical of both them and Job.

As you say in 42 God rebuked his three friends: "After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Elipahz the Temanite: 'My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job had done."

Lesson imo: We should neither think we know the mind of God, as the three friends claimed, nor think our rightousness is in some way greater than God's as Job came to feel nor think that everything that happens in life is caused by God. God condemned them all but favored Job. Job suffered much but in all that he suffered he did not leave his God. His friends made it much harder for him and their continued rebuke of him was imo not loving at all but rather self glorifying. They loved so many words, as Job said, "How long will you torment me, and break me in pieces with words?", but in the end all they had to say was in effect: "Look Job you and your kids must have gotten what you deserved." They misrepresented God. And they caused Job to feel he must declare his own righteouness even more loudly thereby adding to his own wayward course.

Friends like these are best kept far off. JMO.

Happy New Year to you!

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

One,

Does the Cristian message about the flood, as presented in the "scriptures" reveal an understanding of a global flood by the writers?.

Yes, I believe those that transmitted the flood material to later generations thought it is encompassed what was for them the whole earth.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

AlanF wrote:

An excellent passage for would be apologists, Narkissos! It has long been one of my favorites.
Here it is from another translation:
Are you defending God by means of lies and dishonest arguments? You should be impartial witnesses, but will you slant your testimony in his favor? Will you argue God?s case for him? Be careful that he doesn?t find out what you are doing! Or do you think you can fool him as easily as you fool people? No, you will be in serious trouble with him if even in your hearts you slant your testimony in his favor. Doesn?t his majesty strike terror into your heart? Does not your fear of him seize you? Your statements have about as much value as ashes. Your defense is as fragile as a clay pot. (Job 13:7-12; New Living Translation)
It appears to me that God, if he had anything to do with the sentiments expressed, is a lot more interested in honesty than in blind faith -- even blind faith in him.

The setting of that quote is Job's defense against his supposed friends who are in fact trying to convince him that in some way he must have offended God and in so doing has brought calamity upon himself. Zophar said in Job 11:12, "If you direct your heart rightly, you will stretch out your hands toward him. If iniquity is in your hand, put it far away, and do not let wickedness reside in your tents. Surely then you will lift up your face without blemish; you will be secure, and will not fear."

This is why Job answers in chapter 12, "Will you speak falsely for God; and speak deceitfully for him? Will you show partiality toward him, will you plead the case for God?" His so called friends were speaking falsely for God and in actuality were attempting to raise up their own rightousness. They really had no interest in defending God so much as putting down Job. Many agnostic/atheist apologists do the same.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Hi Norm,

You wrote:

You seem to misunderstand here, the diversity of Christian churches and Christian sects isn't the
issue. We are talking about the claims the Bible make on behalf of the religion it promotes.
There is only one Bible Sabrina, how different churches, and you interpret it doesn't take away
what is written there.

Norm, we are talking about what you claim the Bible promotes. On the one hand you denigrate Christianity and the Bible and on the other you say that it does not matter how individual Christians and/or Christian churches interpret their own religion. So, it matters not how Christians interpret the NT or the OT? What matters is how you interpret it? Norm, this is a little strange don't you think? That's like me telling a Brit, that it doesn't matter how they interpret their own laws what matters is how I understand them. That would be ridiculous don't you think?

Let me try again. First of all, and I will try to make this as clear as possible.
Do you really claim that Christendom (the Bible) isn't making the claim to be the only true religion
in the world? If it isn't, why then did Jesus send out missionaries to convert everybody to
Christendom?"

Jesus sent out missionaries to convert everybody? No, Norm he did not. Jesus fully recognized there would be those who would love others and do good but not be his spiritual brothers and he called them righteous. Matthew 25:31, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And he will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right had, 'Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world, for I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; I was naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you visited me; I was in prison and you came to me.

"Then the righteous will answer him saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink: When did we see you a stranger and take you in, or naked and clothe you? Or when did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?' And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."

Jesus continually taught that love was the primary requirement and gave the illustration of the Good Samaritan as an example of neighborly love. The sheep in Matthew 25 are not Christ's brothers but they are good people. Certainly, like most good people they did good to others on the basis that it was the right thing to do just like the Good Samaritan did. When they did good to Christ's brothers they did not know they were his brothers because if they had they would not have had to ask Jesus what he was talking about. But they did ask because they are simply good people who have helped others and unknowingly also helped Christ's brothers. Their good heart is not forgotten by the Christ, their good deeds are recognized and rewarded. There are good people in every religion.

As for Jesus claiming to point the way, the only way; yes, of course he did. But many who have in the past (and today) claimed to be his followers have in reality trampled upon his words and have piled up heaps of reproach upon his name with their filthy unloving ways and practices. It is a great mistake to believe all Christian religionists represent the Christ. They do not! Jesus must be allowed to represent himself, he spoke for himself and his words must be allowed to stand or fall on their own not through the words and actions of others.

Now to the next matter related to the above. If Christendom do indeed make the claim to be
the only true religion in the world, it is simply impossible for it to respect other religions.
All other religions automatically becomes false when you make that claim, and thus those religions
is a tool of Satan.

As for respecting other religions I think it should be rephrased to respecting other people no matter what their religion. Jesus did not limit his help to only Jews, he aided others outside of his faith also. Jesus stood for love of God and neighbor not for the zenophobic practices of the Jewish leaders of his day. Unfortunately, today, that same kind poison is still spreading throughout world.

You see Sabrina, you can't have it both ways. All true Christians naturally have an abhorrence and
loathing of false religion, just read the Bible.

I am a Christian, but I do not abhor other religions. Why should I? There are good, kind people in all religions. Most people follow the religious traditions of that part of the world they were born in. Should I loathe the Hindu because he was born in India? Or the Muslim because he was brought up a Muslim? Or the Jew? No. I have no reason to.

As for the Bible's loathing of false religion, please note Norm, many more pages of scripture have been penned against the hypocrisy and falling away of those claiming to be God's people, Jew and Christian alike, than about the religions outside of the Bible's religious scope. The OT is filled with reprimands and condemnations of the ancient Jews, the NT is more concerned with keeping the Christian congregation on track than with condemning the religions of those outside. Count for count, in the Bible, self-criticism far outweighs the condemnation of other religions.

Have a great day and a great year, Norm.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Norm,

Wow! Must have hit a nerve there huh?

No, you said something that was not true.

Unfortunately I can't be responsible for your reading skills dear.

That comment makes you sound arrogant Norm, your reply drips with it. It's not fair to you yourself I'm sure.

But I recommend that you read what I said one more time, then sit down and make a well thought out post
where you might try to point out to me what isn't true and why it isn't.

Others might have said, "you misunderstood me" or something to that effect but you give Papa-like instructions as if you are the instructor standing before a bunch of children. "I recommend that you read what I said one more time.....then sit down.... and make a well thought out post...." Very silly Norm. Why do you write like that? It makes you look arrogant. Most likely off the board you're a nice fellow not anything like what you sound here. I hope so anyway.

Try to spot and identify the alleged "blanket statement".

You wrote: "By it's claim to be the only true religion, arrogance,
intolerance and discrimination against all non Christians are simply an integrated part of
the religion itself."

This is not true. You paint with a broad brush Norm because you want to not because it's true. Tolerance and acceptance of another's religious beliefs is very alive in Christianity, as you must know. Christianity includes many diverse churches and cultures. Christianity is not homogeneous, it cannot be put in a box and labeled as easily as you have tried. There are many Christian faiths and churches and Christian individuals involved in inter-faith work, respecting the beliefs of their religious partners, their fellow worshippers of God who worship in their own non-Christian tradition.

You also wrote: "Such an extreme attitude came with the ideology of Monotheism and can
actually be called a kind of antireligion."

Monotheistic religions hold no exclusive rights to the ills you claim are such an integrated part of Christianity. Polytheistic religions are just as capable of harboring those ills. It is not the religion so much Norm as the individuals. Individuals within every religion are capable of being the worst they can be and the best they can be. All people are.

Perhaps though there are some who have continued to evolve beyond the general population on the earth and they have the ability to see what the rest of us cannot. Perhaps.....but then again perhaps not.

Have a great New Years, Norm.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

Norm wrote:

By it's claim to be the only true religion, arrogance,
intolerance and discrimination against all non Christians are simply an integrated part of
the religion itself. Such an extreme attitude came with the ideology of Monotheism and can
actually be called a kind of antireligion.

This is one of the most silliest and non-sensical things I have read in a long time.

To throw everyone together and claim Christians are some big bad bogeyman is childish. It is not balanced and not the truth. As soon as someone starts talking in an "us verses them"manner and making blanket statements about large groups of people they reveal their true intent. Which is not to speak the truth but rather to manipulate. Very sad indeed.

Sabrina

290

The Global Flood

by coldfish in

i've just read an intersting article on the flood to do with dates and whether is was truly global or a regional flood.. http://www.commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html.

my father used to be an elder for many years and the flood was one of the things that made him walk away not just from the jw but also belief in the bible.

he was hung up on issues like the flood taking place about 3500 bc and how that fit in with the pyramids.. i don't know much about egyptian history or the ages of the big pyramids, but his reasoning was if the flood wiped out every human on earth except noah etc then at 3500 bc there were only 8 people on earth.

Greenpalmtreestillmine

a Christian,

I've followed this discussion and there is one thing I would like to tell you, thank you. You've given me some food for thought on Genesis and I truly appreciate it. But you have done something else which I appreciate even more. You have calmly and patiently defended your faith in the face of ridicule and falacious accusations. A Christian you certainly are, brother. This is not going unnoticed. Thank you.

Gumby,

Paul said to Peter...."Get behind me Satan". Did Peter complain he was attacked by Paul, or did he realise Paul was expressing his dislike of Peters ideas?

Paul did not tell Peter, "Get behind me Satan" that was Jesus who said that.

Sabrina

4

ExJW teens: sex and drugs and alcohol

by Greenpalmtreestillmine in

jw
friends

exjw teens....how do we handle the sex and drug problems that come up.

not much is said here about exjw teenage pregnancies or other problems such as contraceptives and ex jw teens, or drugs and alcohol and exjw teens.

did your teenage kids have a problem with sex and drugs after you and your teens left the watchtower?

Greenpalmtreestillmine

ExJW teens....how do we handle the sex and drug problems that come up. Not much is said here about exJW teenage pregnancies or other problems such as contraceptives and ex JW teens, or drugs and alcohol and exJW teens. Did your teenage kids have a problem with sex and drugs after you and your teens left the Watchtower? If so, how did you handle it? If not, what did you do to prevent it?

Any advice for those exJW parents who are trying to survive between a rock and a hard place?

I would appreciate any input on this. Thank you very much!!!!

Sabrina

17

Do JWs really grieve?

by undercover in

jw
friends

a strange thing happened to me while watching a television movie on the life of the late nascar star dale earnhardt; i got choked up remembering a close family member who died at an early age.. .

for those of you who aren't familar with earnhardt, his father died when dale was a young man and this movie portrayed him pretty much living his entire life trying to live up to his father's ideals.

of course he died on the race track having some of the same issues with his own son, now a superstar on the track.. .

Greenpalmtreestillmine

I don't really see JWs as any different in this circumstance than other Christians. Christians believe in an afterlife and that hope comforts them. JWs believe they will see their loved ones in the new system, most other Christians believe they will see their loved ones in heaven. But they all grieve and they all miss their loved ones dearly.

This is natural.

Sabrina