I rarely drink since leaving, like 2-3 times a year I get in the mood to have more than one drink. I drank very often when I was in...
Posts by AlyMC
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27JW Closet Drinkers
by shamus100 inhow many here have had jw friends that can only have a good time when they drink?
i've known plenty - ones with obvious drinking problems.
not necessarialy alcoholics, but ones that equate good times with drinking, and drinking alone.
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21
JW's and Homeschooling
by superman inin the mid-to-late 90's i remember the new trend was that a lot of the people that were jw's started pulling their kids out of regular public school and started homeschooling them.
the absolute worst were the kids who had been homeschooled from kindergarten all the way until they graduated.
those poor kids were the most weird, unsocial, naive,sheltered, unadjusted, and uneducated kids i'd ever met.
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AlyMC
My kids currently learn at home. There are a lot of misconceptions about this choice, and I've grown tired of explaining it from my perspective honestly.
That said, a lot of kids are really failed by the process. For many it was an excuse to simply stop learning and do more in the hall or church. I do have friends whose education ends at about 8th grade, and it is obvious in their choices to this day.
WRT to not reading by age 7, sometimes that reflects a neglect on the part of the educators. However, there is an entire school of thought (popularized through Waldorf philosophies) that supports delayed reading. The concept is similar to that of crawling. At one time parents were proud of kids who walked so early they never learned to crawl. Over time science told us that there is truly a benefit to crawling and having a period of time where one is limited to that mode of movement. Now, we encourage children to crawl before they walk. Some assert that whole language and literacy can actually be stunted by premature reading. In the end, I highly doubt there is a big difference at the college level between a child who learns at 8 and a child who learns at 5.
I suppose what I am saying is that what might appear from an uninformed perspective as neglect can often be a well educated decision. Maybe not the decision you would make, but informed none the less.
My kids are self directed learners, and we currently use a constructivist approach. I don't present information to them to learn, I assist them in acquiring information they seek. My 4 yo reads 3 and 4 letter words and my 6 year old reads chapter books. By creating an environment that answers their questions without presenting information, they've learned this skill as naturally as a young child learns to walk, learns their colors, or learns to eat with a spoon. My kids are about 2 grades ahead in math as well.
As far as them being poorly socialized...eh, hogwash. I often consider public education and we're probably not life long home learners, I certainly have nothing against public school. However, my personal thought is that while children are young and growing socially, it is best to have them learning from a variety of ages instead of surrounding them with peers of the same maturity. My kids have Judo twice a week and their class has children 5-12. They have a 2 hour art class each week where they do more than "handprint turkeys". Stained glass, pottery, watercolors, etc. The kids again range from 5-12. The have yoga as well with adults and children. They have a park day every Friday, the children there range from K-12th. Then of course they learn real life socialization through just living a REAL life. For one, there are three of them and we discuss social norms and ideals all day. They go with me to the grocery store and learn how to let someone with one item go ahead of us in line, to open doors for people behind us, to wait patiently to fill their bag with apples, to say excuse me when they reach in front of someone, etc. They go with me to my friends houses and not only play with other children, but learn to interact and converse with other adults as well.
To suggest that a child who isn't in a formal school setting can't be socially well adapted is really a sheltered perception of the world. There are many ways to achieve many things. Rarely is there one right path to any end... and education is not an exception to this truth.
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17
Could a JW lifer not know about theocratic warfare?
by RebelWife ini was just looking at another thread about lying.
it reminded me of a discussion i had a while back with my husband, who has been a jw all his life (dfd now).
i brought up lying and this term "theocratic warfare," which i had never heard before, but found online.
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AlyMC
I was vaguely familiar with the concept while in (was in from birth)- but didn't really get to understand it until I was out.
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Memorial Blues....
by Patrynz inok...so this is my first time posting here...long time lurker first time poster...a bit bout my situation...i havent been to a meeting in a long time...the last was my meeting to announce my disfellowshipping...i have recently gotten an invitation to the memorial...*gasp* well it is about that time of year again...i had been fortunate enuff to be vacant when it came to previous memorials and meetings in general, but due to a sudden unforseen familial situation i was located (found) and invited to the memorial....i have accepted the invitation and my significant other (who has no jw past) will be coming with me...she knows that this part of my life was brutal and that i have tried to leave it behind me as much as is humanly possible...she is a big reason i have been able to move past a lot of my "issues" with religion, family etc etc blah blah blah...i have gotten past a lot of those issues.... my question i think is...am i making a mistake in going?
i have no belief in their drivel and no desire to go back to that "dogs vomit" but due to my semi-newfound appreciation for life and life after jw'ness i am trying to patch stuff up with my jw family...least as much as i can...if such a thing is even possible...my jw family is actually treating me with some degree of human kindness and i feel as though i should at least try to rebuild some semblance of "family" i dunno....but i am going to the memorial....i must be nucking futz...anyhow...thoughts?
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AlyMC
My initial thought was similar to Lavender's. Sometimes it seems as if those close to me were better able to accept me when I fully made it clear that I was not ever coming back. For me, that was explaining that my issue was with the bible in general. Oddly, I was more of a threat when I didn't believe in their specific doctrines than when I didn't believe in the bible or religion in general. It wasn't until that was clearly marked that they were able to begin accepting me. That said, I am not DF'd so there are no clear rules against me.
For some, I think that as long as they see a chance that their shunning or "arms length" strategies are working, they will keep them up and perhaps strengthen them. Because ultimately they do want you "in" where you can be close to them without them getting in trouble.
My thoughts (considering my range of experience) would be to not go, unless I was planning to go often enough to become reinstated and then fade right after. Playing the system so to say. Otherwise, I'd be more inclined of drawing clear lines of where I stand and expecting them to accept me as I am.
All that said, you know yourself and your family the best and it really only matters what you think is best.
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383
Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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AlyMC
Just to come right out and say it- I was raised a JW. Having kids was what lead me away. I didn't want to raise my daughters to be submissive housewives and selfless pioneers. I didn't want them to be discouraged from college when they *should* be looking for a man to pay the bills so they could pioneer. I didn't want to raise them without the joy of honoring their birthdays- and all the other joys of childhood. I didn't want them to be social rejects because of their differences.
I know you are looking for your own personal happiness. I think most of us can relate. But is the JW life what you want for your kids?
I KNOW it is out there... I know so many groups of people who are good, sincere, loving... maybe not perfect... but good to their core. Most of my friends fall in the secular humanist category and have either no church or go to the local UU church (uua.org). but I've also met beautiful people in a variety of faiths. There is community out there for people who are seeking as you are. If I were you I'd not focus on men or devotion to any organization- but work on seeking out community, as that sounds like what you really need.
fwiw, there is worlds of community out there in parenting circles... I've been a part of the most beautiful mama groups- and I've lived in 3 states (4 different regions) since I've been a mom. It hasn't been unique to one area.
Assuming you were baptized at one point, going back to the organization pregnant and unwed would qualify you for a JC. Going back only to be DF'd would probably be really world shattering for you right now, when you really need support and community more than ever.
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58
Have you gained more than lost?
by compound complex ingreetings, my friends:.
the above question is not in regard to one's weight.
that would be a rude question .... in terms of your jw experience, have the losses you've suffered been offset by the good you've gained?.
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AlyMC
Absolutely. I've lost certain relationships, but I've come to feel that I'm not loosing much. I don't want those people by my side anyhow. It is freeing to know how they really feel.
I've gained so much... most simply stated, I've gained a life that I am so happy to be living. I used to not care if I dropped off the face of the earth. I now desire to keep living my life, because I enjoy it.
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383
Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(
by reniaa ini've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!
i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.
they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".
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AlyMC
I am going to agree with Avishai here.
Someone close to me was out for over 10 years. I talked to her the whole time she was out. She went through 3 really awful husbands. She never got out of her dead end job. She never sought and found true friendships.
She went back. Now she says she is happy. She goes to her conventions with her "friends". She puts a smile on her face. She's in another bad relationship, but makes excuses for him. She is still as lonely and sad as she ever was... only she is now putting a mask of "joy in serving Jehovah" on. She's not really changed much in herself, she's only enabled herself to pretend it is all better. She uses her experiences while out to be a success story while back in.
I've known her a long time... and what was hurting and broken inside of her is more than a religion or a husband can fix. All she is doing is fooling herself because she didn't know how to actually make her life better.
I do not know you, so I couldn't begin to say that I know what you need. But what you shared with me reminded me of her. Before deciding to return, I'd honestly consider therapy and introspection. The change you want in your life, will likely have to come from within. It won't come from an organization, a husband, or any external sources.
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Real cheese or cheese slices? (Total Fluff Alert)
by 5thGeneration inwhat's your favourite cheese?.
i like super sharp cheddar and blue..
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AlyMC
lol... real cheese. I lost my taste for the slices around age 20. I love an extra sharp smoked cheddar especially. Pretty much favor hard varieties, not a fan of the softer stuff.
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Elders refuse to Testify
by The Scotsman incame across this article - .
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the case goes to court today i think.. you will notice that the org + the local elders are only interested in protecting confidentiality and are refusing to testify.. the rights of the victims are lower on the priority scale.. makes me shudder.
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AlyMC
I am going to guess that the mother wasn't on board with going to the authorities at first, as it was the school principle who contacted the authorities after she said asked them to prevent him any contact with her daughters. So, it doesn't seem like she was the first to go forward which might prevent her from being DF'd or blamed for the "reproach". Who knows though. I wonder what the society would answer to what blondie posted... no clergy, yet clergy rights.
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Can I (a Christian) go out with a jw?
by asdf44 inok, this is burning me up inside.
i really like this girl i work with.
she's a few years older than me, but we get along great.
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AlyMC
It is possible, sure. I know plenty of people who married "unevenly" as they say. Here is the problem though, it really isn't worth the struggle it will inevitably be.
To exemplify what I mean, when I chose to leave being a JW my husband was a still a believer. The only reason he left is because he has never seen a marriage survive *happily and successfully* where one partner was a JW and one was not. He was raised in the religion, by an elder- so he had plenty of time to see it and never did.
After they finally accept her being with a worldly person (will not happen until well into your marriage) they will "encourage her" by telling her she is so strong to "survive" being partnered to you (those who aren't JW's or receptive to being one are tools of satan in essence) and this will begin to go to her head. She will likely begin to see you as a negative force in her life, I do believe.
Also, while some of her biblical discussions can seem "reasonable" to someone who isn't well versed in the bible... the truth is that her beliefs are extremely unfounded and irrational. Not to mention life altering (no holidays, no voting, limiting association with your worldly family and friends, limiting recreation, no "R" movies, no blood transfusions if you need one, etc) The entire doctrine hinges on facts that are completely unfounded biblically.
So as I see it, to be with her long term you have "giving up everything" on one hand and "being considered a tool Satan is using to pull her away from god" on another. Not an appealing set of choices.