Hillary, I can see why the two doctrines would be fodder for cruelty suits and even criminal cases. But I can't see why a comparison between them is important. (Though it is interesting.)
Posts by Grout
-
27Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?
by Englishman inmost persons who die through lack of blood have made that choice for themselves.
the consequences of such a course of action (often death) generally have an effect which is limited primarily to the individual who is refusing treatment.. however, the victim of a decision to shun has no input into that decision.
therefore the 'victim' of shunning is a helpless recipient of that policy.
-
-
-
1
I love hypocrisy, I love slander!!!
by ashitaka inmy parents-in-law have accused my wife and i of attempted fraud, of corrupting their son, of slandering them (hahahaha, the truth is much better than any lie!!
) associating with disfellowshipped persons, etc.. my father said he was going to do something about it...he wants to straiten things out with the elders because he thinks it isn't right that my wife and i are "informally marked".. i told him to stop being naive, and that if he defended us, eventually that he would be marked, and if he fought that, disfellowshipped.
when we left my parents house last nite, i was looking into the face of a broken man.
-
-
Grout
Shunning has been a factor in my family, yes, but more than that was a shunning that did not happen. My stepfather not only molested my sisters but admitted it, albeit with key details omitted. Still he was not shunned. Moreover, he came >< this close to being reappointed in his new congregation.
As a result of this fiasco, only one member of my family is really a gung-ho dub today.
-
27
Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?
by Englishman inmost persons who die through lack of blood have made that choice for themselves.
the consequences of such a course of action (often death) generally have an effect which is limited primarily to the individual who is refusing treatment.. however, the victim of a decision to shun has no input into that decision.
therefore the 'victim' of shunning is a helpless recipient of that policy.
-
-
Grout
The blood doctrine has the potential for causing individuals a great deal more harm than the shunning doctrine. Granted, if an adult refuses blood, that is his choice, and he mostly harms himself. But if an adult refuses blood FOR HIS CHILD and the child DIES, well, that's worse than any shunning.
On the other hand, one could argue that the number of shunned people is so large, and the number of dead children is so small in comparison, that the total suffering caused by shunning is larger than that caused by blood refusal. And will we ever know how many suicides were caused or abetted by shunning?
On the gripping hand, I think this is basically a silly question. Both doctrines are evil.
-
88
If evolution is true ?
by D wiltshire inif evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.
.
if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.
-
-
Grout
Applied to the cosmos, this is a well-known paradox. If the universe is infinite and has existed for infinite time, then there should be no black spots in the sky; the whole sky should be filled with light from stars, some near but most far. Obviously, though, our night sky is dark. So the universe has not existed for infinite time. And therefore, neither has life.
--
Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos -
17
No such thing as Ghosts...
by Abaddon ini remember this article from when it came out; found it whilst looking for info on low frequency sound, it's very interesting, but was ignored by-and-large by the spook community as it's less rimantic than dead grandpa's.. .
http://users.iafrica.com/s/sa/salbu/apollo/huma.html.
monday 29 june 1998 .
-
-
Grout
Seems to me that one should fear faith and respect its lack.
After all, strong faith means willingness to separate ones mind from reality to a larger degree than necessary.
-
23
Question For American Travellers:
by Englishman inhow do you feel about travelling by air since the events of sept 11?.
have these occurences just made you uneasy, or were they enough to put a stop to flying altogether?.
i told some of my pub buddies that i would ask this question, the news media have indicated that most americans are refusing to travel anywhere by plane at present.. englishman.. nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
-
-
Grout
Not only am I flying, but I recently flew American (strike 1) cross-country (strike 2) on a 767 (strike 3).
Fear of terrorism is kind of like belief in the lottery -- it works only on those who can't do math.
-
4
12/8/01 Awake (Arthritis one)
by patio34 infor the 1st time in about 8 months, i glanced thru a mag.
in the "watching the world" section at the back, there was a small article about the percentage of genes matching in a mouse and human and other examples and percentages.
i forget the point of the article.
-
-
Grout
Modern biology is incompatible with JW theology. Without special creation there could be no Adam and Eve; without them, there could be no original sin. And what about Enoch being "sixth in line from Adam"?
On the other hand, they have to acknowledge evolution SOMETIME. I wonder how they'll contort their theology to fit.
-
2
Politically Correct Bombs
by metatron inherein we have a reason why jws don't discern why the world is.
progress isn't linear or consistent, therefore.
it takes some discernment - a quality lacking in shallow, knee-jerk.
-
-
Grout
The gay-rights complaints make perfect intellectual sense.
American gays are "us" in this battle; Taliban are "them".
So we can't offend any of "us" too much no matter what we
do to "them".We x-JWs have moved past arbitrary moral standards, I would
have hoped.... "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was not inspired, it
was not from God, and it isn't really relevant to Real Life. -
21
Reasons for Leaving JWs/Fatal Flaw
by patio34 ini ran across this in "river out of eden" by richard dawkins (pgs 131-132) yesterday and it accurately sums up why i left jws 9 months ago and, essentially, belief in a creator:.
re dna survivial: 'when the utility function-that which is being maximized--is dna survival, this is not a recipe for happiness.
so long as dna is passed on, it does not matter who or what gets hurt in the process.
-
-
Grout
This thread hits my main motive for leaving. BTW, bboy: You wouldn't be running down the intelligence of non-predators if you'd spent any amount of time with big parrots....
Recommended reading: http://talkorigins.org/
Recommended reading #2: "Non-Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny" by Robert Wright.
-
21
Our Kingdom Ministry October 2001
by Kent inthanks to friends here, the our kingdom ministry october 2001 is now published on the watchtower observer.. http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?site=wo&date=20011018&category=doctrine4&artno=110180002&ref=ar.
yakki da.
kent.
-
-
Grout
NameWitheld: I don't know if the hours are lower because of the change in pio requirements or because it's July's report. Time is counted by service year; July and August are when pios slack off.