Grout

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Posts by Grout

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  20

  Well Finally!

  by Sprocket in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i just got this link passed on to me.

  unbelievable....i have been looking for some support and validation of my assumptions for a while.

  there certainly is a lot to contemplate here.. my story is too long to tell in the amount of time of have before my flight.

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  Grout

  Sprocket, it's amazing how the JW organization ends up pushing out many people who could be great assets. Welcome to the human race!

  PS: Mail me re: programming.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
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  2

  Monday's Solar Eclipse

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.cnn.com/2002/tech/space/06/06/solar.eclipse/index.html .

  (goto this link and there is an additional chart showing who will get to see the eclipse.).

  monday's sunset will dazzle the west.

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  Grout

  Aaugh! You mentioned the Sacramento Kings! My heart is torn out....

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
• 
  26

  Anderson Appeal Ltrs -Adversarial WT

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 23, 2002. mrs. barbara anderson.

  c/o jerre michael hood .

  37396. dear mrs. anderson,.

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  Grout

  Damn, they just ignore the attorney request. That's bold...ly stupid.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
• 
  24

  did you talk to the elders?

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  on your way out, did you have the 'talk' with an elder?

  (or elders?

  ) the kind of, 'excuse me, brother only-elder-who-i-really-trust, i've been having serious doubts about such-and-such and i would really appreciate it if you could help me see if i'm missing something, i sincerely want to know...'.

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  Grout

  I opened up to several elders, including a visiting C.O. who was at my home for a "shepherding call" (cough), about my doubts. Specifically, I was conflicted about the nature of the preaching work. How could it be that our efforts mattered -- that is, that some would live or not depending on how well we spoke to them -- if God was fair, so as to make sure that everyone got the witness they needed?

  In other words: Is God just, or does my preaching matter?

  They were, to a man, frightened by this question. They had no answers, and they knew it.

  I shifted from "question phase" to "exit phase" about the time I moved to another congregation's territory. I probably would have been called before a committee soon had I not moved.
  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
• 
  24

  ORG. BOOK CANCELLED TWO WITNESS RULE!

  by IslandWoman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a little long, but i think you will find it interesting!!!.

  the book "organized to accomplish our ministry" (1989) written by the watchtower society has this to say about matthew 18:15-17 starting on page 142:.

  "when giving counsel, jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolving problems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that may arise between fellow christians......... .

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  Grout

  *sigh* IslandWoman, you're trying to apply Matt18 standards to judicial situations. Nobody can expect that to hold together.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
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  24

  ORG. BOOK CANCELLED TWO WITNESS RULE!

  by IslandWoman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a little long, but i think you will find it interesting!!!.

  the book "organized to accomplish our ministry" (1989) written by the watchtower society has this to say about matthew 18:15-17 starting on page 142:.

  "when giving counsel, jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolving problems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that may arise between fellow christians......... .

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  Grout

  I did miss that, but my conclusion is still correct. Consider:

  If upon investigation it should become evident ...

  Investigation that doesn't turn up two witnesses doesn't make evident that a sin was committed! At least, that's how a JC will rule.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
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  24

  ORG. BOOK CANCELLED TWO WITNESS RULE!

  by IslandWoman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a little long, but i think you will find it interesting!!!.

  the book "organized to accomplish our ministry" (1989) written by the watchtower society has this to say about matthew 18:15-17 starting on page 142:.

  "when giving counsel, jesus outlined some specific procedures for resolving problems of serious wrongdoing, such as fraud or slander, that may arise between fellow christians......... .

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  Grout

  IslandWoman, I think you misunderstood the book.

  They're saying that if you take somebody along on a Matt18-style confrontation, that you should choose eyewitnesses of the "sin" as your companions. But if there are no eyewitnesses, then somebody else will do.

  None of that has any relevance to judicial proceedings, AFAICS.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
• 
  17

  Watchtower 1/1/89

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  does anyone have a copy of the watchtower 1/1/89 (not the bound volume).. i am willing to pay for an original copy.. "as every one knows, there are mistakes in the bible" - the watchtower, april 15, 1928, p. 126 .

  believe in yourself, not mythology.. <x ><

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  Grout

  I wrote, "Why is that page remarkable? I've looked at the jpeg from Alan's site and I can't see anything interesting on it."

  But now I see the "20th century" reference.

  So: "NEVER MIND!"
• 
  7

  Pay Attention

  by out4good3 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  all of the links that used to point to the different chapters in the pay attention book no longert work.

  wish i'd made copies when i'd had the chance.

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  Grout

  It's amazing, but my wife ... raised a Dub and now over fifty years old ... actually did not know about the Pay Attention book.

  The rank & file really don't know that elders have a secret manual. I suppose in retrospect that I know about it only because of its being used by elders in elder & min.svt. meetings when I was present.

  Its mere existence is surprising to many. Its contents are revealing, too.

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos
• 
  8

  Delaware ... I'm in ... Delaware ...

  by Grout in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just arrived in the philly area, currently staying in wilmington where i grew up.

  brandywine cong.

  was once home base.

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  Grout

  Good to know I've got some company here.

  I was baptized at the Vet. Now it's being torn down. Coincidence ... or conspiracy?!

  --
  Chip Salzenberg: Free-Floating Agent of Chaos