Posts by Grunt

7

Parents of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Grunt in

jw
friends

to richie and any other parent of a jehovah's witness who has been hurt by their child.. just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for the pain this cult and your brainwashed child have caused you.

there is no "balm in gilead" to offer but i can identify as my daughter is about the same.

i was never df'd or da'd but the results are very similar.

my grandpa's memorial today at the KH...

by Princess in

jw
friends

my husband and i attended the memorial for my grandpa henry zinser today.

as we got closer to the kingdom hall my stomach was tied in knots and i wanted to throw up.

as i expected, we were invisible to most in attendance.

Hi Princess,
I am happy for your freedom and saddened by the loss of your grandfather. I am sure he was a good man and I'm glad the speaker remembered that it was about him and not a chance to "witness" to a captive audience. May I also sound a "Barbaric Yawp" to your independence??? YAWP!!!

7

Parents of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Grunt in

jw
friends

to richie and any other parent of a jehovah's witness who has been hurt by their child.. just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for the pain this cult and your brainwashed child have caused you.

there is no "balm in gilead" to offer but i can identify as my daughter is about the same.

i was never df'd or da'd but the results are very similar.

Grunt

Hi Waiting,
I have been enjoying your posts as usual. I will pass the hug along and thanks for it, a good hug is always welcome.

7

Parents of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Grunt in

jw
friends

to richie and any other parent of a jehovah's witness who has been hurt by their child.. just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for the pain this cult and your brainwashed child have caused you.

there is no "balm in gilead" to offer but i can identify as my daughter is about the same.

i was never df'd or da'd but the results are very similar.

Grunt

Hi Tina,
I don't like to put up personal stuff, or talk about it really, but it is the only way to get any good out of a negative situation. I put it up so people like those who see your sister treating you in such an abnormal and cultish fashion can see what the Jehovah's Witnesses really believe. Talking about love is one thing, showing it is another. The fact is that shunning your parents or other family members would have made you repugnant to Jesus Christ and Jehovahs eyes back then as well as now. I think that scripture in Matthew 15 does a good job of pointing that out. I am so sorry that your sister has her head turned inside out, like so many cult members do including Richie's daughter and mine. If you took a poll of those on this board who have lost loved ones, not due to sin but due to not agreeing with the Society it would amaze and disgust you. There are so many and their situations are so much worse than mine. I still have my son and my parents and part of my extended family. There are those here who have lost it all. Have you read Snowball's page??? It is worth reading. Thank you for responding and I wish you well. As I said, so many fall away, between you, me and Richie, one of us at least will probably regain our loved one from normal attrition. I hope your sister wakes up soon. Making their behavior public might accelerate it a little. Back when my daughter was trying to completely shun me for disagreeing with the chronology and daring to say so to her, I called her at work. A co-worker answered the phone, and said so sweetly, "Hey, -----, it's your dad" and then talked to me for a while until my daughter came, a nice normal lady. When my daughter came on she talked perfectly normal and was so agreeable I thought the problem was solved. I was saying things like, "I am glad we are talking again" and "If my doubts bother you then let's not discuss it" that sort of thing and she was agreeing to it all. I told my wife it seemed she was over it and said we would just try to put it behind us. Then I called her at home and Wow, what a difference, said she had "had" to act like that because I called her at work. Once again, wow. She didn't want to appear "Cultish" as it would give a "Bad Witness" which is a pretty good indicator that deep inside she knows it is cultish. I couldn't believe it and also couldn't believe I had been so easily decieved. I guess we believe what we want to believe. I wanted to believe my kid still loved us and realized that it is just wrong not to visit or to allow visits by your parents or have any interaction with them. She wants to believe Jehovah is smiling down at her because she and the elders who advised her on her course are "correcting" us. She said in her letter to me, "such discipline is not easy." I imagine your sister sees her behavior as being "discipline" for you also. They don't see the insult and the disrespect, they are adding up the brownie points with Jehovah. Wow, yet again. The great irony is they are adding when it is really subtraction in every way.

Richie, I never went back with any intention to stay, but used to always go back to Alabama for the Memorial with my mom and dad. I reached the point where I just couldn't do it. Being there sends a message that I approve and I can't send that message to anyone. I would never attempt to judge anyone else though and when it comes to holding a family together, that is a tough one. My kids are grown, and I had moved away and stopped attending when they were real young so I never had to face that problem. I always put my family first so I imagine if it meant my wife divorcing me and keeping the kids then I would have to go until they were raised, but I just don't know how I would handle it. The last time I was at a Kingdom Hall was last week and all I did was stick a fact sheet in the door with a little discussion on the false beliefs of the witnesses and a little advice at the bottom. I had hoped to catch some going out in service and get ahead of them so I could let them witness to me and I could put a few facts in their head, but as I was given a bad address I got there a little late and there was no one at the hall. They put stuff in the cracks of doors when people aren't home so I figured, why not? I have thought of calling them but figured they might report it as a nusiance call despite how polite I would be. I really do care for the individuals and want to help them real bad. To believe a lie with all your heart is a sad thing. Anyway, thanks for responding, I had first typed my post as an answer to yours and then figured it might hit more lurkers as a separate post. Any honest person, and a lot of the rank and file are honest, good people, and in their hearts can see what a farce it is to preach love to strangers and shun your own family when they have commited no sin except to disagree. I wish you and yours well.

7

Sister vs Sister-I love it!!!!

by Seven in

jw
friends

sister vs. sister.

venus williams blew jennifer capriati away 6-4, 6-2 friday to join her sister serena in the finals, becoming the first sisters to play in a grand slam singles final < http://espn.go.com/tennis/usopen01/s/2001/0906/1248849.html> in the past 117 years.

earlier, serena pounded martina hingis </tennis/usopen01/s/2001/0907/1249212.html> 6-3, 6-2. .

Grunt

My impresssion, formed only from the media of course, is that these two "Jehovah's Witnesses" are egotisitical, judgemental and always see any defeats as being the product of either racism or some outside factor, never their own fault. Like Michael Jackson I love to see their characteristics and their religion listed closely together. I wish them many more interviews and while I hope they and their father don't continue to act boorish. I do hope that they get plenty of recognition when they do. I think they enjoy it and I think it is good for the cult members to see such behavior and to watch the Tower have to decide what to do about such celebrity members. I can only wonder how Prince is adjusting. I hope he changes his name again and gets out.

7

Parents of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Grunt in

jw
friends

to richie and any other parent of a jehovah's witness who has been hurt by their child.. just wanted to tell you i'm sorry for the pain this cult and your brainwashed child have caused you.

there is no "balm in gilead" to offer but i can identify as my daughter is about the same.

i was never df'd or da'd but the results are very similar.

Grunt

To Richie and any other parent of a Jehovah's Witness who has been hurt by their child.
Just wanted to tell you I'm sorry for the pain this cult and your brainwashed child have caused you. There is no "balm in Gilead" to offer but I can identify as my daughter is about the same. I was never df'd or da'd but the results are very similar. I have been asked not to call, not to e-mail and not to visit. Yet when we do see her at family functions such as weddings she acts "normal." At least according to Watch Tower Norms. Plastic smiles and shallow conversations. Richie, I am glad your daughter had a child, as that child will probably want to get to know you and will probably rebel against the cult, if it goes the way of most Watch Tower Cult raised children. Consider this post from Maximus:

"The October 1 Watchtower 2001 features articles on training children "properly" and dealing with a "prodigal child."
The latest inside U.S. figures reveal that 86% of JW children leave the fold, with some 29% who eventually come back for reasons of family ties, most never "reaching out." That means over HALF leave permanently. These figures have been virtually the same for a number of years now. Well known is the fact that many kids lead a double life; that is, they put on a Witness face while attempting to live more normally away from scrutiny.

In its usual truthful fashion, the Watchtower says: "There are hundreds of thousands of young ones who serve Jehovah happily ... Why, then, do other young ones leave?" Uh, that's over eight out of ten, remember? "

So the kids are seeing through the crap better than the parents. Happily many of them leave also. Don't give up hope. I haven't. As time passes maybe your child will see things as they really are. They do read the bible and most of the bible goes against much of what they do, so there is always the chance the scriptures themselves will help.

Any fool can see that they teach a "different Gospel" so Galatians chapter one might kick in:

"6 I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ's undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

Any honest person can see that Jehovah's Witness children are not "honoring" thier parents so that too could cause a moment of clarity. They might pay attention as they read Matthew chapter 15 where it says:

"3 In reply he said to them: "Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.' 5 But YOU say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother: "Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God," 6 he must not honor his father at all.' And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 'This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines"

Any honest person can see that the scripture at 1 Timothy 2 says Christ is the mediator for all men. Read it again please:

"5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"

Now look at how completely contradicted that verse is by the Jehovah's Witness understanding so kindly explained to a reader in a Questions from readers in the Watch Tower by adding brackets to show what Jehovah REALLY meant:

"w79 11/15 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Man" p. 2620 What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."—1 Tim. 2:5, 6."

From all to [not, all] How smart do you have to be to see that? So, I keep on hoping. I don't think our children are fools, just selfish and brainwashed. Selfish enough to sell their families for a chance at "Life Eternal on Paradise Earth." Brainwashed enough to believe these con men and charlatans despite all the evidence of the past and the way they completely twist the scriptures they base their false promises on. I wish all of you and your families peace, harmony and freedom from this cult. I wish the same for my own.

Your comrade in the war on lies,

43

Goodbye, and Thanks For All the Fish......

by Prisca in

jw
friends

dear all,.

it is with much regret that i have decided to leave jw.com.

it is not a decision i have made lightly, in fact i had been thinking about it for many weeks now.. i am leaving because i cannot be a part of a forum that condones abuse and deliberate offensiveness towards other posters.

Grunt

Prisca,
When I first found this board, Waiting, Frenchy, SixofNine, Seven, all welcomed me and made me feel at home. I really enjoyed it. I still do. I agree with Simon that we shouldn't have censors. I also agree with those who say if you don't like it don't read it. I Never read anything Fred Hall posts. When I am reading and they start cursing one another I switch to another post. The titles and the authors are pretty good indicators. I have a great deal of respect for a number of posters here and some have never said anything that would offend anyone as far as profanity goes. I think if you are selective you can dodge offensive posts. If you must go then I wish you well, but I do hate to see you go.

Take care,

4

Spent time with my brother yesterday!

by Bendrr in

jw
friends

yesterday, my brother had his jeep towed in to my shop for repair.

about the time he arrived i was ready to eat so i took him with me to fuddruckers and we sat at the table and drank beer for lunch.

that was the first time i have ever drank with my brother, and honestly i can't remember the last time we just talked one on one.

Grunt

I'm happy for you Bendrr,
I hope not only your brother but your whole family comes around soon. When you look at the number of people who leave every year and the number who just back away then it gets your hopes up. Sounds like your brother is getting it in gear and will be ready to shift out and up pretty soon. I hope so for his sake as well as yours. Anyway, sounds like a good start was made.

Take care,

15

Erica's 98 Sentencing Hearing

by silentlambs in

below are listed quotes form the 1998 sentencing hearing for manuel beliz, the man who molested erica.. do you see any similarity between this and the berry sentencing?

why are jehovahs witnesses so keen to have convicted child molesters keep their children?

also unique in this hearing brother beliz asks to speak.

Grunt

SL,
Thanks so much for all you have done, and for putting up the transcript. I read every word of it. Like Hawk, I'd like to send my best to Erica, and wish her a long and happy life. I wish the bum had gotten more time but what he got will give him plenty of time to come to feel remorse. I imagine he will give a lot of thought to what he shouldn't have done. Sadly, it will be because of the punishment and not because of the wrongness of what he did. The worst punishment for him is just BEING who and what he is. I also hope for some justice for his other victims and some punishment for the Elder Who Got Away. Once again, thanks for all the work.

15

Erica's 98 Sentencing Hearing

by silentlambs in

below are listed quotes form the 1998 sentencing hearing for manuel beliz, the man who molested erica.. do you see any similarity between this and the berry sentencing?

why are jehovahs witnesses so keen to have convicted child molesters keep their children?

also unique in this hearing brother beliz asks to speak.

Grunt

Wow. Hard to believe people who call themselves Christians could be so cold and so organization-protective instead of child protective. No action. Well, judging from the past, if it starts costing them CASH then there will be action. When they were lying in Mexico it was because of the money, the donation arrangement is because of the money, the French debacle of sneaking out the equipment and then trying "political" action was because of the money and when this starts really costing them money THEN there will be ACTION.
Matthew 15:7-9 describes them pretty well:

7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 'This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.

So many look at these hypocrites and think they see the image of God, when in fact it is the opposite. They really do value the gold of the temple above the temple and appearances above true goodness. As the scriptures just prior to the ones quoted above point out they would and do stab their own parents in the back over money. Their real values are more like the Mafia's than Christ's.