Chikikie, do you have any personal experiences that you can share with your sister that would convey just how difficult and devastating the WTBTS was in your own life? I think what some of the members here are feeling is normal, however militant it may come across, considering the raw pain that resulted in their own lives as a result of their association with the WTBTS. My own experience with the JW on all accounts was to observe their overt suspicion of anyone who was "on the outside." As a matter of fact, one of the many things that caused a light to come on in my head occurred at a Memorial service. People sitting in chairs around me were introducing themselves to one another and there were quite a few "visitors" and non or ex JW present. One who was visiting who was a JW from another congregation in another city introduced herself and said in a hushed tone with a solemn secretive nod, and while her eyes furtively glanced around her as though she was among the enemy, "I am a JW." It wasn't what she did that got my attention, it was that it looked so normal to the Witnesses listening to her and nodding in acknowledgment.
So given the fact that your sister is considering returning to this religion of the secret handshake and the fact that the interpretations of a book that is already over 3000 years old that anyone can buy off the shelf are treated as though they are top secret, could her experience here on this forum be viewed as a reintroduction to a mindset that she will herself possess once she is reinstated?
What sort of thinking is it if you don't feel uncomfortable with the JW view of the world (and that includes you, you have said), and yet you feel indignantly uncomfortable with the ex-JW view of anyone who sympathizes with the WTBTS? As outspoken as some may be on this forum it may bring you a certain measure of comfort to know that no one here is looking forward to your inevitable destruction. They are simply posting their views in an effort to be heard and to arrive at a better understanding of your views as well. What they are not doing is copy/pasting information off of a disc that they have been given as the only source of information they are allowed to have, and then when you don't agree, just casually walking off firmly convinced that you are slated for destruction anyway and they, thankfully, will be left to pilfer all of your wretched belongings once you have received what you truly deserve.
No, that is the mindset of the Jehovah's Witnesses. THIS is a forum of free thinkers who are willing to blast away and take their lumps as well. The majority here have chosen to not replace their brain with a disc, and the result of that can be argumentative, colorful, hysterically funny, stubborn, sad, and all those things that make up genuine human experiences when allowed to move about in a state of free expression. The truth is, however offended you are by some here compares only slightly to how offended you are going to feel when your sister returns to the fold and lets you know one day that she is looking forward to life in paradise and having the opportunity to take part in the privilege of scooping up your ashes.
Yes, that sounds horrible, and very much like something members of a cult would believe.
Pickled
JoinedPosts by Pickled
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181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
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61
Why exactly do you come to this board?
by R.Crusoe ini wondered if anyone, after starting to post here after so long being worried about doing, now just does it because they acn and hasn't stopped to ask why the still feel the need or even pleasure.. so why do you come here?.
do you know?.
it's not easy to completely explain what it is substiruting for imo!.
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Pickled
I thought I was immune and then without noticing at first I nearly got sucked into a cult. The tactics were manipulative, covert, and 100% agenda based. When the scales dropped off, all the lying to me pissed me off. So I came to this first board ever to share every sliver of thoughts that I can muster about it until I feel I have let it go and/or helped to prevent just one other person from getting sucked in as well. I may be here a while to accomplish either, and I apologize in advance for any debates, arguments, only seeing my own side for now, suspicion toward anyone sympathetic to the WTBTS, overly critical or hammer like statements, or general crankiness about the topic in general. If I get carried away just tell me to put a cork in it. I take suggestions well.
Pickled -
181
It looks like I will become an elder this week!
by outofthebox inthat's right guys.
as i told you before, they boe have been considering me for the eldership.
which i don't care for, but since my family is stuck in this cult, i guess i can use the new position to help them see that the holy spirit has nothing to do with me being an elder.
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Pickled
Reniaa,
If he doesn’t get people out by any means available,
and he doesn’t leave and therefore alienate his family,
and he doesn’t become an elder and get in over his head,
and he changes his mindset completely concerning his current attempts to “make a statement”……..
That only leaves settling down and becoming a “good” definition of a Witness, doesn’t it?
Did you intend another option that I am not seeing? (Not asking sarcastically, I really would like to read another alternative that you think would be more balanced and practical given his current view of the WTBTS) -
11
Walsh Trial questions.
by Fatfreek ini've pasted a portion of the transcript below.
my question is in regard to the identity of the q. and the a. persons.
is the q = to covington or clyde?
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Pickled
Leolaia, you always provide such great information on this forum. Thanks for making that effort.
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42
Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)
by lovelylil in.condemned him to be crucified, those who had .
finally, the claim that on the third day jesus appeared to his disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-christian!.
we read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats.
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Pickled
Thank you Lovelylil for posting this info. Very interesting to read about.
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Someone needs to shout the dangers of the Society off the roofs!
by escaped inthe world doesnt know how dangerous or divisive the cult is.
i woud liken it to "jim jones", but the death of the members is emotional and longer as they lose their identities, families and potential futures.
they rip your life from you to further their agendas and the hell know what those agendas really could be.
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Pickled
Welcome escaped! So glad you are talking about it. Everyone's experience is a little different from the other's here, but if you start to share you are bound to catch the attention of someone whose experience closely resembles your own. I am sure there are posters here who were also home schooled and would welcome the opportunity to share how they moved past the same point you are at now. Keep sharing, keep posting, keep reading.
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75
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled ini posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so i made it a separate topic because i would really like to read your thoughts about this... .
does anyone know if any reasons are given by the wtbts about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
it seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years.
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Pickled
More of the transcript from the Douglas Walsh Trial. Please pay close attention to how questions are answered when the "Witness" does not want to give a straight answer. Then compare the loops, turns, vague wording, and evasiveness to articles that have appeared in the Watchtower explaining why they got a date or a doctrine wrong....
1954 Walsh Trial
Hayden Cooper Covington/CROSS
Pages 81 – 92 of Transcript
Q. Each of these bodies has its own Charter or, as we say, Memorandum and Articles if Association?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you a Vice President of both the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Societies?
A. Yes, the Pennsylvania Corporation, and the New York Corporation.
Q. Are you also a Director on the Board of Directors of both Companies?
A. Yes, as Vice President of each I am on the Board of Directors.
Q. Are you on the Board of Directors of the International Bible Students Association?
A. No.
Q. To become the Director of, if I may call them, the two Watch Tower Societies, is there a form of election?
A. There is a form of election at the annual meeting.
Q. Is that the Annual General Meeting of the Company?
A. That is the annual meeting of the membership of the Society, and all who want to are privileged to attend.
Q. But all who want to attend, I suppose, must be shareholders in some way of the Company?
A. No, the members of the Corporation attend either personally or by proxy, but the annual meeting is announced by law in the columns of the Watchtower, and whoever want to attend this annual business meeting can attend and see the proceedings.
Q. At one time members of the Companies were shareholders, weren’t they?
A. Whoever had given a contribution of 10 Dollars is entitled to one share.
Q. That was originally in the Articles of Association, was it, of the Incorporation?
A. Yes.
Q. And in return for his contribution of 10 Dollars did the member get a Share Certificate?
A. He was notified, a receipt of his contribution was given to him, sent to him, and he was informed that he was entitled to one voting share, and therefore, when the election of the organization of the Society was to take place he was informed that he was privileged to be present, or to have his vote cast by proxy.
Q. Privilege to be present wasn’t really a privilege, but a right in virtue of his shareholding?
A. Yes, certainly, but he could be there by proxy.
Q. Quite, so that the member didn’t require to vote himself, but could provide a proxy?
A. Yes.
Q. Had the proxy, the person who voted in place of the member, to have any special qualifications to do so?
A. He must be one also who was a voter.
Q. That is to say when there was a contribution of 10 Dollars, or whatever it may be, the voter, the member of his proxy, must be a shareholder?
A. Yes, he must be a shareholder.
Q. Was that true of both Societies?
A. No, the New York Corporation was a different Society, but it was a membership corporation.
Q. Do you mean that the New York Society never had a contribution basis of membership?
A. No.
Q. What was the basis of membership of the New York Society?
A. Well, the member of the Corporation was appointed by the Society and there was one thousand dollars put to his credit.
Q. The member was appointed by the Society?
A. Yes.
Q. And instead of paying anything, do you say he was credited with a thousand dollars?
A. If he was not possessed of that himself. For instance, I was made a member of the New York Corporation and there was a credit made to my account.
Q. Was that simply a book entry or did cash in some way pass to the credit of the Company?
A. Well, it was credited, as I say. There was a book entry.
Q. Was a pure book entry, or was it represented in any form by cash or capital?
A. Well, I never handled the cash.
Q. You cannot tell us about that?
A. No.
Q. Did you have to pay up your thousand dollars in any way?
A. No. I was already a member of the headquarters family.
Q. By that do you mean that you were already a director?
A. No.
Q. Well, I am just a little adrift to know what you mean by the phrase, a member of the headquarters family?
A. A member if the family that operates at 124 Columbia Heights. That is the headquarters staff.
Q. Is that something different from the Incorporation?
A. Different from the Incorporation.
Q. From the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, New York?
A. Different from the Incorporation? The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society was incorporated in 1909 in New York City and that was before I was a member of the Bethel Family at headquarters.
Q. Where was thus Bethel Family located? Not in the registered office of the Company, was it?
A. No, but they had their main office there at Brooklyn. New York. But they had a registered office in Pittsburg, none the less, and we always held our annual meetings – you mean, of the New York Corporation?
Q. Yes?
A. Yes. In the New York Corporation the offices are there in the Bethel Home.
Q. I am sorry, but I just wanted to get this clear. You said that you were credited with one thousand dollars?
A. Yes, that is my recollection.
Q. To make you a member if the New York Corporation?
A. That accompanied it.
Q. That is so though, isn’t it?
A. That is my recollection of it.
Q. But you said that you were already a member of the headquarters family?
A. That is right.
Q. Is the headquarters family something distinct from the New York Corporation?
A. Yes. The membership of the New York Corporation does not include all the family members.
Q. What is the headquarters family and who are its members?
A. Well, the headquarters family to day comprises some 430 men who are engaged in the various operations of the organization there, the office work and the legal work and the printing work and the shipping work, and all the housekeeping that requires to be done.
Q. There are, are there not, big printing presses operated by the New York Company?
A. Yes, at 117 Adam Street, Brooklyn.
Q. Do the employees who, among other things, operate these printing presses live in the headquarters family?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that a kind of hostel so far as the building is concerned?
A. No, it is a home for the lodging of the members if the family, to keep them together, and also to provide for their sustenance at the most economic rate.
Q. Are they sustained from the physical point out of the resources of the New York Incorporation?
A. They are sustained by contributions that are made to the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.
Q. Would you answer the question? I am trying to keep apart the Brooklyn Incorporation and the Pennsylvania Incorporation. Are those who are in the headquarters family sustained from the physical point of view by the New York Incorporation?
A. The New York Corporation holds the properties there in New York.
Q. Who pays the people living in that headquarters family?
A. Specifically you will have to ask the Secretary-Treasurer, who knows directly about that.
Q. In addition to being a Director of both Incorporations, I think that you said that got in on the editorial capacity with a Committee?
A. Yes.
Q. Am I right that you are chiefly responsible for the books and tracts and other publications of the Incorporation?
A. I have to examine them and carefully check them, and nothing is passed without my O.King them.
Q. At the present moment what size is the Committee which assists you?
A. That is something that is not disclosed. We do not disclose names.
Q. I am not asking at the moment for names, but I am asking for numbers?
A. Well, it consists of a number of men.
Q. How many?
A. That may vary according to the amount of work that is to be done.
Q. How many at the moment?
A. Well, there are a number who contribute and the number is not static.
Q. Pardon me, but I am asking you a very simple and direct question. How many serve on your Editorial Committee at present?
A. Well, I will have to compute them. I will say seven.
Q. Plus yourself?
A. Including myself.
Q. At meetings of the Committee do you preside?
A. No, the President presides.
Q. Mr. Knorr?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that Committee convened prior to the issue of each tract or book?
A. No, but the Editor (myself) and Mr Knorr have to put the final O.K. to the material that is submitted for publication.
Q. By the Committee?
A. By the Committee.
Q. Does that Committee perform functions of translation as well as interpretations in English of Scripture?
A. No, it does not perform matters of translation. We have translators there who translate the material that has already been published in English.
Q. In so far as translation of the Bible itself if undertaken, are you responsible for that?
A. I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.
Q. Are the translators members of the Editorial Committee?
A. That is a question which I, as a member if the Board of Directors, am not authorized to disclose, because when the translation was donated to the Society at a meeting of the Board of Directors there, the Translation Committee made it known that they did not wish their names to be disclosed, and the Board of Directors, acting for the Society, accepted the translation upon that basis, that the names would not be revealed now or after death.
Q. Are the translators all members of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
A. That again is part and parcel of the agreement that their names shall not be revealed. They are consecrated men as the forward to the translation discloses.
Q. It is awfully important, isn’t it, to beware of false prophets?
A. That is right.
Q. Is it the view of your theocratic organization that the qualifications of the translators and interpreters of the Scriptures should be kept secret?
A. That is the business of the Translation Committee. They can make a donation on their own terms and we can accept it. The Society can accept it on their terms.
Q. You are speaking now of donations?
A. Yes. The translation was donated to the Society on the understanding that it would be published.
Q. But surely by arrangement with the Editorial Committee. People don’t come forward and say “I wish to donate you a new translation, for example, of the Book of Daniel”, do they?
A. A Committee can do that.
Q. The Committee must arrange with somebody, mustn’t they, to come forward with a translation, if the Committee decides that translation is desirable?
A. Well, it was the President of the Society who presented this translation to us, the Board of Directors, and he had it examined there, and then the Board of Directors was the one that voted to accept the translation.
Q. The Committee and the Board of Directors discussed beforehand the desirability of having a translation?
A. The matter was presented fresh to the Board of Directors and the President of the Society, as it has already been published in the Watch Tower and stated in the public meeting in Yankee Stadium, had portions of the translation read to the assembled Board of Directors as instances of the style or translation and of its accuracy and of its modernity, and it is on that basis the Board of Directors signified their wish with regard to the translation.
Q. Did the Editorial Committee itself, that is by its individual members, know the qualifications of the persons who were giving translations?
A. No, that is something that that the Editorial Committee is not concerned with. The Editorial Committee does not determine for the Society whether a translation shall be accepted or not. It is the Board of Directors who are the advisory and governing body who determine that.
Q. In fact it is the Board of Directors in both the Pennsylvania and New York Incorporations which decides upon and authorizes the issue of either translations of the Scriptures or books or pamphlets interpreting the Scriptures?
A. In this case the Board of Directors voted to accept the translation.
Q. I am now asking you a general question, if I may. (Question repeated)
A. No, the Board of Directors of the New York Incorporation do not decide on those matters.
Q. Well then, which body decides?
A. It is the Board of Directors of the Pennsylvania that decides in these matters.
Q. Is there any difference in personnel between those who are Directors of the New York Incorporation and those who serve the Pennsylvania Corporation?
A. Some of our members are members of both Corporations and Directors of both Corporations.
Q. The president and vice-president are members of the Board of Directors of both Corporations?
A. Yes.
Q. And the same with the secretary and the treasurer?
A. yes.
Q. You yourself are multilingual?
A. Yes.
Q. At what age did you go to Cincinnati University?
A. I entered the University in 1913 after graduating from Woodward High School and I continued there until 1914.
Q. When did you go to University?
A. In 1911, and I continued there until April 1914.
Q. Did you graduate?
A. No, I did not. I left the University in 1914 because I realized according to Scriptures that that was the crucial year which was to be marked by the outbreak of a great trouble, and I realized that the ministerial work was the most important thing in the world to do and I wanted to get into the ministerial work before the great trouble broke, and so I wanted to get in earlier but my father refused to permit me to leave the University because I was still under 21. In April of 1914 he acceded to my wishes and allowed me to leave the University, and I immediately entered full time ministerial service as a pioneer.
Q. What subjects were you studying at Cincinnati University?
A. I was studying in the Liberal Arts College and among other things taking up Chemistry, English, Latin, Greek and German.
Q. Had you done any Hebrew in the course of your University work?
A. No, I had not, but in the course of my editorial work my special research work for the president of the Society, I found it was very necessary to have a knowledge of Hebrew, so I undertook a personal study of that.
Q. What subjects did you hold passes in when at Cincinnati University?
A. Passes?
Q. I do not know whether you work there the same as we do here, but after the anguish of examination you got a certificate saying you have passed certain subject. Do you work that was in America?
A. Well, I passed the junior year of the University, and I did not complete the third year. I left in April and the term terminated at the beginning of June.
Q. What subjects did you have passes when you left the University?
A. I had passed through Greek and Latin and I had also taken two terms in German.
Q. Did you do Helennic Greek?
A. Yes, as well as ocined(sp?) Greek, the Greek of the New Testament.
Q. Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?
A. Again I cannot answer that question, in harmony with the gentlemen’s agreement made by the Board of Directors and the Translation Committee.
Q. Why the secrecy?
A. Because the Committee of Translation wanted to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.
Q. Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?
A. But I believe translators are generally acclaimed and go down in history as the translators.
….see page 93 of transcript for further testimony. -
12
Annoying JW Emails
by LEOS inlong story short, i have been dfd for 2 or 3 years.
i have not really been counting.
best 2-3 years of my life.
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Pickled
Your Grandfather might be under the impression that the WTBTS wants him to focus on dates and the fact that the end is near, and when that might occur. He might even think that since the WTBTS includes that information constantly in all of their literature that is directly from God, that the WTBTS is indicating that he should focus on that too. However, you might want to point out that the WTBTS thinks he is spiritually weak if he gives in to the temptation of taking all of those words at face value...
Watchtower, November 1, 1995, Pgs. 16-19
5 After prophesying events leading up to a time of “great tribulation,” Jesus added: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:3-36; Mark 13:3-32)
We do not need to know the exact timing of events.
Rather, our focus must be on being watchful, cultivating strong faith, and keeping busy in Jehovah’s service—not on calculating a date.
Jesus concluded his great prophecy by saying: “Keep looking, keep awake, for you do not know when the appointed time is. . . . Keep on the watch . . . What I say to you I say to all, Keep on the watch.” (Mark 13:33-37) Danger lurks in the shadows of today’s world. We must keep awake!—Romans 13:11-13.
6 Not only must we pay attention to the inspired prophecies concerning these final days of a wicked system but we must anchor our faith primarily on the precious sacrifice of Christ Jesus and God’s marvelous promises based thereon. (Hebrews 6:17-19; 9:14; 1 Peter 1:18, 19; 2 Peter 1:16-19)
Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the “great tribulation” would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914.
However, we “bring a heart of wisdom in,” not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we “count our days” in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12)
Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.
7 In line with the above, professor of history Robert Wohl wrote in his book The Generation of 1914: “A historical generation is not defined by its chronological limits . . . It is not a zone of dates.” But he pointed out that World War I created “an overwhelming sense of rupture with the past,” and he added: “Those who lived through the war could never rid themselves of the belief that one world had ended and another begun in August 1914.”
How true that is! It focuses on the crux of the matter.
“This generation” of mankind since 1914 has experienced appalling changes. It has seen the earth drenched with the blood of millions. Warfare, genocide, terrorism, crime, and lawlessness have erupted worldwide. Famine, disease, and immorality have stalked our globe. Jesus prophesied: “You also, when you [his disciples] see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur.”—Luke 21:31, 32.
8 Yes, the complete triumph of the Messianic Kingdom is at hand!
Is anything to be gained, then, by looking for dates or by speculating about the literal lifetime of a “generation”? Far from it!
Habakkuk 2:3 clearly states: “The vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.” Jehovah’s day of accounting hastens ever closer.—Jeremiah 25:31-33; Malachi 4:1.
9 When Christ’s Kingdom rule began in 1914, Satan was hurled down to earth. This has meant “woe for the earth . . . because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.” (Revelation 12:12) That time is short, indeed, compared with the thousands of years of Satan’s rulership. The Kingdom is at hand, and so is Jehovah’s day and hour for executing judgment on this wicked generation!—Proverbs 3:25; 10:24, 25. -
12
Annoying JW Emails
by LEOS inlong story short, i have been dfd for 2 or 3 years.
i have not really been counting.
best 2-3 years of my life.
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Pickled
You can say whoa, hang on there grandpa, a whole lot more happened instead of just that day by day thingy that the "Faithful and Discrete Slave" suddenly realized immediately after 1975 came and went....
Watchtower 1976 July 15 pp.435-437 Keeping a Balanced View of Time
Keeping a Balanced View of Time
[…]
16 What, then, has God revealed to us about this? He certainly has not left us without guidance. By prophecies such as those just considered he enables us to know where we are in the stream of time. The fulfillment of his prophetic word convinces us that God is not sleepy nor slow, and as the apostle Peter said regarding those acting wickedly, "the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering." (2 Pet. 2:3) We have ample information and evidence to cause us to be confident that we live in the "time of the end" as regards the present unrighteous system of things. Yet, beyond this, there are things that God has not revealed to us. One of those things is the time for the outbreak of the "great tribulation" prefigured by the tribulation that came upon Jerusalem, a tribulation that will be global in its fulfillment.
TIME FACTORS THAT GOD HAS NOT REVEALED
17 There are reasons why we cannot know this. For one thing, even though Bible chronology clearly indicates that we have reached the mark of six thousand years since the time of the creation of the first human, Adam, it does not tell us just how long after that event the sixth creative day came to its close and the seventh creative period or "day," God's great rest day, began. Genesis chapter two, verse three, says that Jehovah blessed and made sacred that "day," and it therefore seems reasonable that it will see within its bounds the removal of the wicked old order and the establishment of God's righteous new order by means of the thousand-year reign of God's Son. Thus there is reason for believing that that thousand-year period will form the closing part of that great rest day and will restore the earth and its inhabitants to a perfect state. That would enable God to say of that seventh day and its results-as he did of other creative days-that "it was good."-Gen. 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31.
18 But that great rest day did not begin immediately after Adam's creation. Other events took place after Adam's creation but before the close of the sixth creative day. One of these is of great importance to all of us. That is the creation of the first woman, Eve. Without that none of us would be alive today, for, as the apostle Paul states at 1 Corinthians 11:12, "just as the woman is out of the man, so also the man is through the woman," all of us needing a human mother to be born.
19 How much time elapsed between the creation of the man and that of the woman? The Bible does not reveal this. It could have been a relatively short time. Adam was created-not as a child or an adolescent-but as a full-grown, fully mature man, both physically and mentally. He did not have to crawl first to learn to walk, nor babble sounds until able to speak. He was created with these abilities and could communicate with his heavenly Creator and could be set to work to cultivate and care for his garden home. He could comprehend divine instructions and also the prohibition concerning the proscribed tree of the knowledge of good and bad. (Gen. 2:15-17) In those respects, then, he would have been in position to receive a wife at any time.
20 True, and yet Adam was in certain respects like a newborn infant upon being created. Why? Because, fully adult though he was, the day of his being created was still the first day he had lived. Everything he saw-every tree, flower, plant, every stream, lake, river, every creature of all the bird, animal and fish creation-he was seeing for the very first time. This was true of everything he did. When he walked he took his very first step; and so too with the experience of running, climbing, touching, smelling, tasting, eating-all were brand-new experiences for him. What enormous curiosity he must have felt as he examined the fascinating handiwork of Jehovah God and became acquainted with his garden home! How long would he be allowed time to satisfy that curiosity before taking on added responsibility as a family head?
21 That Edenic home does not seem to have been some tiny plot of ground. It contained all the varieties of trees within its boundaries, according to Genesis the second chapter. And there was a "river issuing out of Eden to water the garden," one large enough to separate and form the headwaters of four major rivers, some of which still flow today. (Gen. 2:8-10) It would take time for Adam to go exploring all of this in order to become familiar with the area he was assigned to care for and cultivate.
22 "But," one might ask, "would it not be pleasant if he were to share all these new experiences right away with a human companion, a wife, and thus learn together with her?" That might be, and yet might it not be more appropriate if he first gained considerable knowledge and experience beforehand? Then, when joined by his mate, he would be in position to answer her questions and explain things to her, thereby enhancing her respect for him as her informed head. (Eph. 5:22, 23) God's direct warning to Adam regarding the consequences of disobediently eating from the prohibited tree placed Adam in the position of God's prophet to the companion He would later create for the man.-Gen. 2:16, 17.
23 The only information the Bible actually supplies us is that, before creating Eve, God began bringing to the man all the creatures He had formed and "the man was calling the names of all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a complement of him." (Gen. 2:18-20) It takes but a few words to describe this; but how long did it take in actuality?
24 The brevity of the Genesis account surely does not require our thinking that God simply gathered all the animals and birds into a big group and then had them file past Adam while he quickly called off names for them, one by one. True, he may have had to deal only with basic family kinds rather than all the varieties of creatures that have developed out of those family kinds. But even so, we cannot rule out the possibility that God's "bringing" these creatures to Adam may have involved their moving in sufficiently close to allow Adam to study them for a time, observing their distinctive habits and makeup, and then select a name that would be especially fitting for each. This could mean the passing of a considerable amount of time. And we may note that, when Adam did finally see his newly created wife, his first words were: "This is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." (Gen. 2:23) This too could indicate that he had waited for some time to receive his delightful human counterpart.
25 What, then, does this mean? Simply this: That these factors, and the possibilities for which they allow, prevent us from saying with any positiveness how much time elapsed between Adam's creation and that of the first woman. We do not know whether it was a brief time such as a month or a few months, a year or even more. But whatever time elapsed would have to be added to the time that has passed since Adam's creation in order for us to know how far along we are within God's seventh "day," his grand day of rest. So our having advanced six thousand years from the start of human existence is one thing. Advancing six thousand years into God's seventh creative "day" is quite another. And we do not know just how far along in the stream of time we are in this regard. -
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Pickled
Yes, and I'll even let you read all of my posts if you make me a ham sandwich.