Posts by wobble

131

Proof of God or Christ without a holy book

by Awen in

jw
friends

in some previous posts i have asked certain questions that still haven't been answered.

so without going back to those threads and possibly de-railing them i thought it best to make a new topic.

please bear with me.. i have asked certain ones to prove the existence of god or christ without referencing any biblical writings or characters.

wobble

Thanks for the thread Awen, one of the best on here for some time,good questions and reasonings.

I love to see debate of the order we have seen on this thread, each side robustly putting their points across, yet mostly in a respectful way.

The point about the Bible has been well made on here, interesting colllection of books it may be, but as it has no provenance, it is nothing more than that, certainly not an authority on anything, or even to be trusted in any way, each writers had his own agenda, making sure that truth, especially historical truth, was very much subsumed.

Proof of God or Christ withiut a holy book ? I won't hold my breath waiting.

Thanks again for the thread.

42

I am officially 'mentally diseased' by WBT$ standards!

by punkofnice in

last night whilst i was relaxing 2 elders came to my door to tell me i am officially da'd because of my 'actions'.

they weren't specific but i have been to church and telling others about the wbt$ scandals.. i was told they thought i was rude for ignoring their letters and not attending my jc.. my reply: 'you were the rude ones for sending me hounding letters when i specifically asked you never to contact me!'.

i got a 'hurumph' from the lead eldub.. i don't remember the whole conversation but they were annoyed i kept referring to the wbt$ as 'just a big business' but i told them they were on my property uninvited so they'd have to listen to my opinion and i don't have to listen to theirs.

wobble

Well done Punk !!

I bet it felt good to assert your authority on the situation, to cut those smug self-righteious bastards down to size. I bet it feels good to relax now, no more looking over your shoulder, if you ever did, they have no hold on you now at all.

You never know, your words have gone in to their brains somewhere, and one day they may surface as two brain cells accidently spark and make one or both of those Elders take a long hard look in the mirror and say "Prat".

Ironic that they may lable you (and me) "mentally diseased" when it is obvious that their thinking is as skewed as it is possible to be !

11

Can A JW "Call The Whole Thing Off"?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

jw's can't end an engagement to marry someone.. when my teenage engagement to a jw sister ended, i was asked to state who had brought the relationship to an end because that person would be summoned to appear before a jc.. i was astonished at this infringement on a person's freedom.. here's the wt's take on this:.

questions from readers.

is it proper for a christian who is engaged to be married to break off that engagement??a.

wobble

Funny, it was around that time I broke off my engagement to a lovely young sister, because I realised the marriage would not work.

Nothing wrong with her, she was perfect, but I was not.

I had no problem from the powers that be in my then Congregation, something she was surprised about, but I was not an appointed man or anything, just a pleb.

But WTF were young people supposed to do ? You weren't supposed to "go steady" unless marriage was intended, so after a while the pressure was on to get engaged, then what ? if you realised you had made a mistake you would get all kinds of dog's abuse for ending the engagement.

No doubt lots af marriages went ahead that should not have, causing more heartache.

What a bunch of tossers.

23

Know any Rich JWs?

by skeeter1 in

i was a poor jw.

lived in the worst part of town.. there were rich jws in our congregation, or so it seemed.

they had businesses, lived in a nice part of town, always a new car, etc.

wobble

We had one multi-millionaire in our Congo.

Mind you, he went through a divorce, so I guess he is now worth half what he was, still half of a few Mill. is still a lot.

Why the interest in Rich JW's ?

I knew another couple who took over Daddies business when he retired early to go in to Pioneering, his daughter told me lots in her Congo were jealous because of their wealth, she said to me "You must know what its like " ???!!!????

She must have thought I had money just because I had my own similar business, little did she know !

We had a lot in our Congo. who liked to give the impression they were doing very well, big Audis, BMW's, Mercedes', etc a C.O remarked that he had never seen such a prosperous looking K.H car park, little did he know that many of these were men of straw, some went Bankrupt several times, one was convicted of fraud, not all "that glisters is gold"

311

"Mentally diseased" article to be published in The Independent tomorrow

by cedars in

hi everyone.

as a parting gift to you all before i take a much needed break from this forum, i thought you would be pleased to know that the independent, a leading uk newspaper, will be publishing a piece on the "mentally diseased" watchtower article in tomorrow's edition.. i would like to thank everybody who has assisted the journalist, jerome taylor, in his investigation.. best wishes to all of you,.

cedars.

wobble

This topic should be kept going as long as possible.

I had some thoughts on Article 8 of The Human rights act, the right to a family life, thinking of it in the light of the JW's shunning practice, so I started a bit of research, and it now strikes me that the original WT July 15th "mentally diseased" accusation could fall foul of quite a bit of U.K legislation.

Angus posted that the CPS were looking at the article, but I wonder if they have thought of the wider application ? i.e The Freedom from Harassment Act, designed to stop stalkers,but now used in a wider context.

Just random thoughts here, but if anyone is in touch with the CPS, even indirectly, perhaps a hint to look at all aspects, and all possible infringements of U.K law, may not go amiss.

26

When was the first time...

by OneDayillBeFree in

you ever went on jwn?

do you remember?

what made you do it?

wobble

In 2007 I was waiting for the Elders to call back to see me and prove 1914 to me, I just could not see that it was in the Bible, 2520 days etc was just made up rubbish.

They did not call to defend the doctrine.

I stumbled across Greg Stafford's site "Elihu Books", as I was always interested in non-WT books about the Bible and thought maybe his site sold second hand books.

I was heartened to find someone who like me was a JW but just could not see the 1914 doctrine in scripture.There was either a link to JWD or some mention of it, so I slid across and read some stuff on here.

Frankly, I was shocked ! Not at the "Apostate Views" but at the level of disrespect shown to the WT, remember one of the first posters I encountered was WT Wizard, but that disrespect made me realise that there was much much more wrong with the WT than just its foundation doctrine being total bunkum.

I lurked for a short while, weeks, then I posted, then I walked away from the WT forever. I then was given advice, help and love on here that helped me through the trauma of having my whole world view change.

You guys are the greatest !

11

JW Hostages: Ray Franz

by compound complex in

to this day, in all countries, any persons among jehovah's witnesses who find they cannot conscientiously support fully the organization's teachings or practices live in a climate of fear, feeling they must constantly be on guard as to what they say, what they do, what they read, with whom they associate, from whom they receive letters, not feeling any sense of freedom even when among personal friends or close relatives if these are also witnesses.

as stated, in my personal experience i have had people phone who were afraid to give their name or who felt it necessary to use a fictitious name, some who even felt it necessary to take out a special post office box to be able to correspond without danger of their correspondence with me or other former witnesses being discovered.

they face a form of "hostage" situation, produced by the organization's authority.

wobble

Dear Ray, an eloquent, if sometimes wordy writer, but what a force for good he was, and still is through his writings.

Any who are just leaving the WT need to read the two books, after reading you are a different person.

His kindness and hard work on behalf of lost souls who have had the rug pulled from under them were unbelievable. When very unwell he would still write as much as he could, trying to reply to all who contacted him, his love of man was palpable.

When the WT got rid of him, and crapped on him, they shot themselves in the arse, they were never the same after that, up until then there was the chance of reform and improvement, ever since they arrogantly decided not to pay attention to people like Ray they have gone downhill fast.

Fools.

9

JW obsession....

by light_bulb in

jw
friends

hi i'm new here.. i've been dfed for almost 2 years.

despite the usual familly problems that i have had to deal with, i found i was living life successfully... so happy to be out in the world, experiencing new things and just enjoying the freedom to be me.

i never really have too much time to worry too much about what i have left behind.

wobble

Welcome, and WobbleHugs to you !

I know how you feel, it is quite crushing to realise that your families love for you is very controlled by the cult. I found spending time here therapeutic, bouncing ideas off people, finding out how they had coped etc

I have also found that over time my family treat me better and with more love than they did when I first left. The difference is,I suppose ,that I am not DF'd orDA'd, but you may find they mellow in time.

Remember we are here for you, and good luck !

37

Who will give us meat to eat?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel... and all those who go with... may you all have peace!.

man, it's pretty tough out here in this "wilderness", isn't it?

hot, dry, dusty... no meat... only the wretched manna and lukewarm water.

wobble

Dearest Shelby,

When I read the thread title it aroused a memory in me, I then read your first post, almost poetic !! and realised your thoughts were along a different line to mine.

What I remembered was the sad feeling I had when attending the Watchtower study at the Kingdom Hall, week after week I used to think "Who will give us meat to eat?" , meat in the sense used by the Apostle Paul the "meat of the word" as opposed to the "milk"

Week after Week, Month after Month, I felt that there was no true "content" in what was being served up, no nourishment, no refreshment for the soul, how different from what Jesus offered "Come, drink lifes waters!" , the WT was an arid desert.

So, I left.

I am glad that you and others are able to eat the "meat of the word" and find "refreshment for your souls", may you all have peace and well being, Shalom!

10

Question, Mormon temples.

by jam in

the mormon temples will build five temples in cities.

worlwide.

the church, with it,s 14.1 million members.

wobble

their Meeting House or whatever it is called locally here, in Ashford Kent is far more impressive than the local K.H's

I find that with the LDS church, they may be a high control cult like the JW's, but they do it so much better, much more style.