Posts by wobble

16

Proof versus stories...how important is it to you?

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

many of us have had our say (often) regarding rick and six screens.. i don't know why, but i just need to say this...and it is only my opinion but i think its spot on or i wouldn't write it.. the problem is not ricks story's, goodness knows we all like new story's, gossip, predictions, rumours or whatever regarding the watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.. its the way its done.

we all know there is not tangible proof of many things we like to talk about, we all speculate about what is or will go on.

but we recognize that.

wobble

I totally agree Black Sheep, he does far more harm than good, if indeed he does any good.

When I was first researching on the Net I found his site and it struck me as downright Satanic !

Itwas just as we had been told as JW's an Apostate site would be, add to that the false claims etc and he is an enemy of those trying to find out the truth about the WT.

The sad thing is that he must put off JW's who would come here, and other valuable sites, and free their minds and hearts, it would have been easy for me to dismiss the whole of the Internet because of him and his site, as I had the JW mindset then.

Whether or not he has a direct connection to the WT, who knows ? He is certainly doing a good job for them.

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

wobble

I appreciate David's contributions here too. Thanks.

Just a side point Cedars, why 25 years after 1919 for the formation of the GB, I thought that was in the 1970's ?

23

The WT, the Millerites and Orson Wells

by Aussie Oz in

it is well known of course that ct russell was a fan of william miller and the mans teachings.

indeed his colaboration with millerite nelson barbour cemented russells love of all that was millerism.. i recall some time ago a thread wherin it was mentioned that fred franz had a library stuffed full of millerite books and so on, and that he himself modeled his own style of address and writing after william miller himself.. with that sort of impact on the doctrines and teaching methods adopted by the society at that time, i am also wondering about orson wells book 1984.. could it be plausable that this book also has its place on the shelves of some locked away private library?

published in 1949, the wt leadership has had plenty of time to study the methods of the novel and try them out.

wobble

I don't know if they read "1984" but they sure as hell put in to practice every idea in it.

I don't know for sure if you can make connections like that, just because they use all the methods of the book doesn't mean they have read it, after all, it was written about the sort of Police States that were existent in 1948.

Cults may just have copied those states.

Tim Minchin has a short routine about the difficulty of making connections like this, he asks "Is every Icecream Vanman a paedophile, or is every paedophile an Icecream Vanman ?"

16

question for older ex-elders

by scooterspank in

i have only just begun to talk to my father about why he left the truth.

i know why he stepped down as an elder many years ago but we have just scratched the surface about why he "faded" in his 60's i would say (he is now 74).

i just wonder how much leaving the "truth" that much later in life has an effect on depression, anxiety, anger (he joined in his 30's)?

wobble

My answers to your questions would be very similar to Cantleaves above. But from personal experience I would say that leaving the cult is a dangerous time for anyone, suicidal depression could easily be triggered.

Logic and reason have little to do with this, in a surface way at least. What I mean by that is you could show your Dad all the reasons why the past does not matter, and how much better his life is now, and still leave him with depression at a dangerous level.

Professional help is best, Cognitive Behvioural Techniques will probably be employed among other things, but those guys know what they are doing. If dad does not recognise that he has a measure of depression then read some good self help books yourself and try to treat him yourself.

"Overcoming Depression" by Paul Gilbert may be a good starting point.

17

Am only now discovering/reading the Apocrypha

by Muddy Waters in

i was never a born-in jw, got baptized when i was 20 after being raised and belonging to a denomination of a protestant church.

so i never even knew that there was a "catholic" bible or extra bible books (the authenticity of their belonging in the canon or not is a debatable issue, and one i certainly have no answers about it!).

i knew through my study with jws that there were some "extra" books written, but since i believed everything the wt said hook, line, and sinker, i just went along with their explanation that they were not part of the bible canon.

wobble

Does anybody know exactly which books Rabbi Jonathan smuggled out of Jerusalem before the destruction of 70CE ? Surely they would be the ones he considered "canonical" ? (from a Jewish perspective)

44

SPECIAL INTERVIEW with Jehovah!

by Terry in

you live; you die.

r: but, why give us a bible.

why send jesus to die for us if everything is "meaningless" for us?.

wobble

I am speechless with admiration Terry ! Well done, and a happy New Year !

5

Happy New Year and a blessing !

by wobble in

jw
friends

a happy new year to you all!!!!.

and a dave alan blessing "may your god go with you".

another irish blessing (toast) "may your roof never fall in, and may those below it never fall out !".

wobble

A Happy New Year to you ALL!!!!

And a Dave Alan blessing "May your God go with you"

Another Irish blessing (toast) "May your roof never fall in, and may those below it never fall out !"

and lastly , Irish again, "May your house never be big enough to contain all your friends"

much love,

Wobble

30

Did the Apostles ALWAYS Consult the Scriptures?

by AGuest in

jw
friends

to the household of god, israel... and those who go with... may you all have peace!.

as usual, there is the ongoing debate about the "value" of the bible and wisdom in consulting it to determine whether an "inspired" expression originates with god.

you've seen me go back and forth with others on this but now i would like to ask you... as our lord just asked me... a question that might make you consider this matter in another... shall we say... light.

wobble

Dear Shelby, May you have peace ! The peace meant by the word Shalom !

I find the question posed in your O.P most strange ? Do you test and question what your Lord says to you ? Surely there is no need, and John receiving the Revelation would not think to question it surely ?

Also I see no record of questioning or testing even mentioned (The Beroeans were simply verifying that the prophecies were there in scripture) until the John who wrote the letters, after the John who received the Revelation had written down his vision, says to test inspired expressions that were being delivered as he wrote, not already established ones, surely ? Surely the John of the Epistles was warning against the ideas of Gnosticism etc which were developing by then ?

I may well be absolutely wrong with this, if so please correct me. Your O.P made me think though that someone who really follows the leadings of Christ would not need to be constantly checking a manual.

Those of us who have known the sacred writings from birth do not need to keep referring to them, they are written on our heart.

9

What are the marks of True Christianity?

by TimothyT in

i was browsing through the new public edition watchtower article for march 2012. generaly, id say i agree.

of course there are more than 5 ways of identifiying who christians are today, but the following are reasonable enough benchmarks:.

remain in my worldno part of the worldhave love among yourselvesi have made your name knownthis good news of the kingdom will be preachedhowever, what gets me is the constant demonstrating of the inadequacies of other religions, purely to bull up the jehovahs witnesses.

wobble

I would have thought that if you wished to follow the example of Jesus as shown in the Gospels, you would be compassionate and caring to all, even little children, you would seek out those labelled "sinners" and eat with them, and you would do all in your power to help cure the ailments and the lack that people have.

How does the WT score on these points ? Nil Points.

12

Any known records of Jesus kin folks?

by jam in

jesus had other siblings and they had kids.

so it,s safe.

to say jesus had nephews, nieces and other extended.

wobble

Apart from the NT writings, there are no known records of Jesus that are anywhere near contempory. The reference in Josephus has been debunked.

The Gospels are full of problems too, Mark was not an eyewitness, who "Matthew" really was we do not know, Luke was not an eye witness and John was written very late, again, we can only trust that the writer is truthful.

But it is strange, if Jesus existed and was anything like the claims made for him, you would think that a near relative would have been proud to claim kinship.

I know the arguments presented to explain this, but some independant historical evidence for Jesus and from his kin is what you would expect if he truly were the Son of God.