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  6

  Is it a gamble?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a jw family member tells me that dealing in stocks and shares = placing capital at risk in the hope of obtaining financial reward without working.

  he claims that it is therefore unchristian.. is this view correct?

  apart from stocks and bonds donated to it, is there any evidence that the society uses subscriptions to deal on the markets?.

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  larc,

  Many thanks. This seems to clear the matter up nicely although it does beg the question, why work?

  link
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  6

  Is it a gamble?

  by link in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a jw family member tells me that dealing in stocks and shares = placing capital at risk in the hope of obtaining financial reward without working.

  he claims that it is therefore unchristian.. is this view correct?

  apart from stocks and bonds donated to it, is there any evidence that the society uses subscriptions to deal on the markets?.

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  link

  A JW family member tells me that dealing in stocks and shares = placing capital at risk in the hope of obtaining financial reward without working.He claims that it is therefore unchristian.

  Is this view correct? Apart from stocks and bonds donated to it, is there any evidence that the Society uses subscriptions to deal on the markets?

  Any info. on this would be very helpful to me.

  Thanks

  link
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  13

  Need help with a few questions please

  by rejoice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i lived next door to a jw for 3 years and we became very good friends although it was often a strained relationship.

  i would read the books and even listen to the tapes from kh she gave me but, when i had questions or showed an opinion she would become so angry.

  i was reared a southern baptist and still am today and claim jesus christ as my savior through his grace.

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  Hi rejoice,

  I have found that many JWs have their own strange little beliefs that are not taught in their religion. One of these is the one you mention about others being saved at Armageddon through association with them. I have heard that on a number of occasions and think it stems from their own alleged association with the 144,000. (Sorry, dont want to confuse you with their doctrines)

  Also, with regard to the word apostate, many witnesses have their own interpretations of this word which do not line up with the dictionary definition. I have very often heard it used to describe anything that is written or spoken which does not accurately reflect the beliefs of Jehovas Witnesses. Hence, according to them, you can get an "apostate book" or "apostate newspaper" or an "apostate recording" etc etc.

  There is no one thing that you could say to help your friend unless she wants to leave.

  Hope this helps

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  108

  The Real Truth About Raymond V. Franz Revealed!

  by bjc2012 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and for those reasons, coj wanted in the beginning, to stay with the organization, just like bill bowens.

  that is all carl wanted.

  yes, as members of the governing body, they knew full well, exactly what carl's writings meant.

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  link

  Something bothers me!

  treatise

  | trits, -z | n. & v. LME . [AN tretis, f. OFr. traitier TREAT v.: see -ISE 1.] A n. 1 A written work dealing formally and methodically with a subject. Formerly also gen., a literary work, a book. LME . b A spoken or written story or narrative. LME-E17 . c A description or account (of something). L16-L17 . 2 a Negotiation, discussion or arrangement of terms. LME-M17 . b A treaty. LME-M16 .

  fact

  | fakt | n. Also (repr. dial. pronunc., now US) fack | fak | . L15 . [L factum use as n. of neut. pa. pple of facere do, make.] Truth; reality. L16 . 4 A thing known for certain to have occurred or to be true; a datum of experience. & in pl. Events or circumstances as distinct from their legal interpretation. E18 .

  I have read COJs treatise as contained in his book The Gentile Times Revisited and I found it to be (IMHO) an excellent work. It was well researched, well thought through and presented a logical case based on all of the information that was known to the author at the time.

  My question is this; at what point in time does bjc2012 claim that this treatise passed into the realms of fact. Surely it is at this point that, not only RF and BB et.al. but every Witness should have departed from the organisation.

  (sorry if this tends to repeat the above post from scholar)

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  12

  A question about 1914

  by chibiwellington in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am researching the jw religion...and i was talking to a man who was going to join.

  he told me something about satan and his angels not being cast out until 1914...because that's when the first war in heaven happened.

  i don't know how accurate he was, but please, if someone could help clear me on this?.

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  Chibiwellington,

  You have managed to hit on quite a controversial subject. I have a fairly large library of Watchtower material and 1925 is the very earliest that I can find any evidence that the return of Jesus Christs in 1914 was accepted as Warchtower doctrine. All their literature shows that before 1925, the belief was that Christ had returned in 1874.

  I have requested information from several "learned" Jehovahs Witnesses which would contradict this but none has been made available to me.

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  24

  Top 10 points proving JW belief is false.

  by mamashel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i need some really good points to prove to my husband once and for all, everything i have learned so far is right.

  we were talking again last night, and he actually for the first time said he would look at the information that i have found.

  i have the coc book, and i dont want to throw a whole bunch of stuff at him at one time.

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  I know that everyone is going to hate me for saying this (so why say it?) buuuu....t:

  "The Truth" is a belief system. It is not based on fact but an individuals beliefs therefore it cannot be "proven" either one way or the other. You are not being asked to prove anything, you are being asked to dis-prove it and thats very difficult.

  The only reasons that a person will leave this belief system is if remaining in it is causing them pain and if leaving it can be seen to be less painful than remaining in. There has to be a reward for leaving greater than the reward for staying in. Therefore find out why the person needs to stay in and work on this single aspect.

  I agree that doing this is difficult and requires a great deal of thought, especially if the persons carrot is "everlasting life on a paradise earth" The big thing is that the person must at least be willing to listen and I think youve got that already, but don't rush it

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  9

  JW wifes

  by happy man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i have read that some of you here who leave the truth, have still your wife inn the religion, some of you have devorse beaucaurse you left and she still inn.. this must be a very difficult situaition.

  myself have a very devoted jw wife,she is all that you here say jw are not, always ther fore the peopel who need help.always have here door open fore evryone .. go a lot in sevice, take care of evrything in the home , try to help evryone.. when i tell here some of this stuff, i see the brightness in here eyes was going down, happiness was perhaps littel bit away, now i must ask you who have been in this situation, can it realy be worth the price, to see your loved ones bee unhappy, and even perhaps lost ther hope and happiness..

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  Hi Jim,

  I have previously said elsewhere here that I studied (in great depth) for six years before deciding that there was no way in which I could ever believe in the fundamental doctrines. Before I got to that stage, I did become an Unbaptised Publisher but stepped down before getting baptised.

  I appreciate what you say about how my not being baptised affects the situation with my wifes beliefs although getting half way there and turning back must have had some effect.

  My wife and I have a pretty good understanding of the situation; I help her in every way with getting to meetings etc. and she never places me in positions where I am uncomfortable with things. We have known each other for over fourty- five years and I feel that if "the truth" provides her with something that she needs that I cant provide, then why should I destroy her illusions? What good would it do me or her to burst the bubble? If I thought it was doing her serious harm in any way then I might think differently.

  BTW, I enjoy your posts and follow you quite a bit. I hope things work out with you and your wife someday it seems that all is not lost there.

  Regards

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  105

  Please participate in my survey

  by Zechariah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have received inquiries about how i was trained by spirit as a psychologist.

  i was led to many sources of enlightenment.

  books routinely was i led to that it was important i read.

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  1 4 7 3 5 0 2 6

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  13

  Resurrection Shuffle

  by PopeOfEruke in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of jw "beliefs" that was and still is most confusing to me is the condition of married persons after the resurrection.

  in particular, if one marriage partner dies before the big a and then gets resurrected.. its surprising how many jw's hold sacred their own private interpretation on this.. generally i found that if the marriage had been a happy one, a lot of jw's believe if the surviving marriage partner does not remarry, then they will end up back with their dead-but-back-again married partner after the resurrection.

  in a normal sexual marriage relationship.. if the survivng partner does remarry however, the the old chestnut gets rolled out about people in the resurrection "will neither get married or be given in marriage.

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  Apart from woman problems there are other things that concern me about the "new system"

  When you have been around for sixty odd years there are always a couple of people that you dont want to bump into again because it could be embarrassing for one reason or another. A thousand years is a long time to have to keep a low profile!

  Along the same lines, the wife wants to meet all the oldies like Noah, King David, Soloman etc and believes that the thousand years will give her the time to do it. She's having cards printed just in case. Have to give her her due though, she's met most of the Royal Family in this system so she's had a bit of practice.

  See you then

  link

  (edited by link to try and get punctuation back)

  Edited by - link on 23 October 2002 14:27:51
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  9

  JW wifes

  by happy man in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i have read that some of you here who leave the truth, have still your wife inn the religion, some of you have devorse beaucaurse you left and she still inn.. this must be a very difficult situaition.

  myself have a very devoted jw wife,she is all that you here say jw are not, always ther fore the peopel who need help.always have here door open fore evryone .. go a lot in sevice, take care of evrything in the home , try to help evryone.. when i tell here some of this stuff, i see the brightness in here eyes was going down, happiness was perhaps littel bit away, now i must ask you who have been in this situation, can it realy be worth the price, to see your loved ones bee unhappy, and even perhaps lost ther hope and happiness..

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  Hello Happy Man,

  Im in the same position. My wife and I are in our sixties and we are still very much in love. I would never want "to see the brightness in her eyes go down" so I never say anything that might cause that to happen.

  Even other JWs cant understand how we can have such a happy marriage but I think that we are lucky because although she is very strong in "the truth" (25 years) she does not allow it to affect our relationship. How she does that I dont know, but it works.

  She realises that I have researched her religion and cannot accept some parts of it relating to the "organisation". She also believes that we wont be separated at Armageddon because of my own belief in God.

  I think that we must have the best mixed marriage going!

  All the best to you and Mrs Man.

  link