Posts by link

36

Question for SwordOfJah and other real JWs

by Realist in

jw
friends

i have a request.. could you perhaps state all the real facts that support the idea of the gb being inspired by god?.

i am not talking about feelings, faith etc.

but of real proveable fact...things that would be accepted in a court or that would survive scientific testing.

link

This is the part that stumbles me every time this matter is discussed with JWs.

SOJ wrote:

In the times of Moses, there were around 3 million Israelites, and Jehovah saw fit to organize them and Moses was their leader on earth. Although Jehovah guided him, on many aspects Moses made decisions himself. When judicial cases aroused, he would consult the law that Jehovah had given him and then made a decision. In that way, he was guided by Jehovah on every act. Now if Jehovah organized the Israelites and set up human leaders to guide them, would he not do the same now adays since were talking a lot more that 3 million followers? As we read the structures, we see that Jehovah usually follows the same pattern.

To me this is clearly saying that the GB and/or organisation of Jehovahs Witnesses have an equal position with Jehovah as that of Moses when leading the Israelites and this cannot be.Jehovah clearly and unequivocally demonstrated, not only to Moses but also to all the Israelites, that he was Gods spokesperson. If "Jehovah usually follows the same pattern" where is this pattern today.

Im sorry SOJ, it just is not there and there are absolutely no parallels whatsoever between any part of the JW organisation today and the situation in the time of Moses.

link

22

Illuminati ..their coming to take you away bum bum

by Brummie in

who has heard of the illuminati?

and the secret plans they have to rule the world?

geeesh...does anyone believe this?

link

I don't know how you guys are getting away with poking fun at the illuminati.

Just use the search facility to look at some previous threads on this subject and you will see that quite a lot of the people who post here take them very seriously. I think that most of them are 'born agains'.

I'm surprised that none of them have surfaced yet.

link

31

WT Payments.

by caspian in

jw
friends

just recieved a new letter from the society.

it is another begging letter for contributions, in it they explain the british tax relief given to them as a charity .

for every 1 pound donated the goverment will give them an extra 28p if it is donated under the gift aid arrangement.

link

Thanks to T O H and frogit for your information.

I have just checked the Charity Commission site and note the following:

MEMORANDUM AND ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION. DATE OF INCORPORATION: 30TH JUNE 1914 AND THREE SPECIAL RESOLUTIONS, DATED 2ND NOVEMBER 1949, 20TH APRIL 1951, 10TH JANUARY 1958

How come they were busy incorporating the IBSA just a few months before the end of the system (or Armageddon depending on which version you chose to believe)???

On a more serious note, take a look at the income that is shown for the ISBA on the Charity Commission web site. For 2000/01 it was almost 12 million U.K pounds and in the same period another 15 million plus was donated to the WTB&TS. In total over 27 million U.K. pounds!!!

Can anyone shed some light on where all this money comes from and where it all goes? Bear in mind this is just the U.K. There is another $1 billion floating around in the U.S.A.

link

Edited by - link on 9 January 2003 10:23:4 edited again because things keep disappearing.

Edited by - link on 9 January 2003 10:25:26

31

WT Payments.

by caspian in

jw
friends

just recieved a new letter from the society.

it is another begging letter for contributions, in it they explain the british tax relief given to them as a charity .

for every 1 pound donated the goverment will give them an extra 28p if it is donated under the gift aid arrangement.

link

Caspian,

Following the C.Os talk last week, my wife tells me that the Society is in urgent need of money to build Kingdom Halls in third world countries.

I have never heard the Society claim to build Kingdom Halls for anyone and I understood that the materials were always financed by the congregation who also supplied the labour f.o.c.

Can you confirm for me if the Society has any financial input in the building of Kingdom Halls. This might include people sent to different countries to supervise building operations (if this happens).

I do know that the Society finances missionaries and full time preachers (pioneers) from its resources and also run their monasteries (homes). Apart from this can you say what else the profits from their publishing operations is spent on.

Thank you

link

6

Liftons "Loaded Language" in JWs

by refiners fire in

thought reform and the psychology of totalism page 429.. regarding the criteria of loaded language, lifton writes:.

...."the language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought terminating clich.

alternate ideas.

link

Hi Gareth,

May I make a comment on your post?

rf is not talking about brain washing but about thought control techniques and this is something very different. You will note that he has used a term related to brain washing (in a very oblique way) only once and you have done it (very specifically) nine times.

You are using a thought guidance technique closely related to the very point that rf is making.

link

5

Give credit, good or bad, where it is due

by whyhideit in

jw
friends

this might sound familiar

a family in the kingdom hall is having some troubles with money.

they are hardly making enough to feed the family and pay bills, because something has happened in their lives that is financially devastating.

link

whyhideit,

That is a well reasoned and well thought out post.

It is my belief that you have touched on a major point in your penultimate sentence where you speak of child like insecurities.

What happens to us, and the experiences that we have in childhood, play a very significant role in where we go and what we do as adults.

This holds true not only for converts but for those born into the religion also.

We are able to make decisions and be accountable but there are lots of provisos. We need to be aware of what the choices are and have a need and desire to make changes before we can take any action. The basics are sometime lacking because of childhood experiences and we would far rather have the security of what we know or what we are told than venture out and "get hurt".

It is far easier and much more comfortable for some to just let things happen around them and blame the good on God and the bad on satan.

link

24

Nails in The WT Coffin

by hillbilly in

jw
friends

nails in the wt coffin-- what kind of nails?

a while back i posted my opinion that the wt's demise would come at the hand of the "home grown" legal department.

in my scenario i see the lawyers flitering cash out and creating legal manuvers to protect the players ( like any other corporate "legal theft").

link

Mary,

Thanks for clearing that up for me - I can breathe again. What you have said is almost identical to my understandng.

If anyone might be wondering (I bet you're not), this is important to me because I have challenged my wife to provide me with one shred of evidence that Ray was disfellowshipped for apostacy, as she and her JW friends claim.

I thought for a moment that I was about to be undone!

Thanks again.

link

24

Nails in The WT Coffin

by hillbilly in

jw
friends

nails in the wt coffin-- what kind of nails?

a while back i posted my opinion that the wt's demise would come at the hand of the "home grown" legal department.

in my scenario i see the lawyers flitering cash out and creating legal manuvers to protect the players ( like any other corporate "legal theft").

link

Interesting post but:

Scully

Ray Franz left the GB and was later DFd for apostasy

Can you clarify this for me. I never understood it to have happened like that.

link

49

Taming of a Beast (Long post)

by animal in

taming of a beast.

it was back in 1993, the last day of work before christmas.

70 of us were laid off that day (after 6 months notice), and left at lunch, never to go back.

link

animal,

Just want to say that this is one of the best posts that I have read on this board for a long,long while, I could identify with everything you wrote.

Many thanks for sharing this with us.

link

18

Reinventing the WBTS

by link in

i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.

as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.

they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.

link

Elswhere,

If it is that simple why dont they just do it? This teaching has to be an enormous mill stone around their necks. It would be one less impossible belief that they would have to try and instil into converts making the operation a lot,lot easier.

link

Edited by - link on 27 December 2002 13:40:54