Posts by link

4

Fantasy Land?

by link in

i recently posted a thread about my wifes congregation being told during the c.o.s talk that they must increase their contribution to society funds.

my wife then decided to explain to people about the donation arrangement for the magazines.. she has now been told by the p.o.

to cease and desist talking about the donation arrangement as it may appear that they are soliciting contributions, even though under the charity laws in the u.k. this could not be classed as an offence.. the reasons?we are too close to the time of the end so there is not the need for money.. this is far different to the actions of both the bible students and the witnesses in similar situations in the past.

link

I recently posted a thread about my wifes congregation being told during the C.O.s talk that they must increase their contribution to Society funds. My wife then decided to explain to people about the donation arrangement for the magazines.

She has now been told by the P.O. to cease and desist talking about the donation arrangement as it may appear that they are soliciting contributions, even though under the Charity Laws in the U.K. this could not be classed as an offence.

The reasons?

We are too close to the time of the end so there is not the need for money.

This is far different to the actions of both the Bible Students and the Witnesses in similar situations in the past. Their history shows that they do not believe in their own interpretation of prophesy.

In 1914 the Bible Students believed that they would be swept up to heaven in October of that year. However this did not prevent them from expanding their Business Empire of that time even though it was quite small then. The U.K. Charity Commission web site states regarding the International Bible Students Association:

MEMORANDUM AND ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION. DATE OF INCORPORATION: 30TH JUNE 1914

So just four months before being swept up to heaven they were still wheeling and dealing. (see the latest income figures for the International Bible Students Association!)

Very recently the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of New York made application to alter/build a new complex. In this application (or associated appeal) they claimed that this development was part of a ten year expansion project.

So how close do the actually believe we are?

As foretold in the Bible the "truth" and Jehovahs people are under tremendous persecution in many lands thus we do not want to antagonise our position by asking for donations.

Surprising as it may seem, my wife does not distribute magazines in many lands so I asked which lands were being referred to. I was told that this was in the Middle East, former Communist Countries, China and some European countries.

It transpires that the Witnesses have not been singled out for special persecution in any of these areas but for one obvious reason or another Christianity in general or any variations of local beliefs are frowned upon. This affects the door to door work of Mormons just as much as Witnesses.

So what exactly was foretold?

We can now see that our original belief about the King of the North has completed a full circle and has returned to the area of Babylon. This is an absolute sign that we are now VERY close to the end.

What this has to do with donations I cannot see. However I am open to correction on my next point: I cannot find any record in any of the writings of CT Russell or the Bible Students or the Jehovahs Witnesses that give Babylon /Persia/ Iran as the King of the North.

So what has gone a full circle?

Is it just me or do you also think that these people are living in Fantasy Land?

link

28

HYPNOTISM AT THE KH!

by TR in

jw
friends

can hypnotism be accomplished on an unsuspecting person without the flashy methods used by those we've seen on tv?

has anyone here been hypnotised?

i've tried self-hypnosis, but i can't seem to find a good quiet time except for late evening, then i'm too tired and fall asleep.

link

Yes! A person can go into a hypnotic trance without their knowing it. Everyone on this board does so at least several times a day and it is possible to induce a trance in an unsuspecting person. However, once they are in a trance like state there is nothing that you can say or do to make them do something that they do not wish to do.

The bottom line is that you could not have fun with the speaker during the Public Talk. Sorry.

link

36

Are ALL criticisms of the Society justified?

by logansrun in

jw
friends

let me start by saying that i deplore much of the teachings of the watchtower and am convinced that it is not "the truth.

" either through ignorance, error or deliberate action they have caused great heartache for thousands and unknown heartache for millions.

i have thoroughly disconnected myself from their teachings and would rightly speak out against what i know to be harmful in that organization.

link

logansrun,

Congratulations on what is, in general, a well thought out and reasoned post. I would however like to point out one error.

You have managed to do what the Society do so well and attach a fact to a fallacy before calling them both facts. You said :

The general idea floated around that the JW organization is collecting millions from the public and it's members and is engaged in the most duplicitous of financial practices. All of this is utter hogwash.

You have made two statements (a) "the organisation are collecting millions from the public and its members" and (b) "is engaged in the most duplicitous of financial practices"

Having linked these two statements together you then proceed to say:"All of this is utter hogwash".

Statement (a) is not utter hogwash and the proof of this is given on very recent posts to this board.

I hope you will agree that this example is not in keeping with the general idea given in your opening post on this thread regarding reasonableness.

link

2

The latest from Baghdad

by link in

this just in from baghdad.... .

latest report from hans blix and the unmovic team states that further to.

investigations of abu's general ironmongery store in baghdad, a. considerable supply of warfarin and mousetraps has been uncovered.. .

link

Sorry Shakita. If it bothers you I will take it down.

link

26

Watch Tower Finances

by link in

would anyone like to comment on the following observations?.

the very large majority of the jws that i come into contact with on a regular basis are not wealthy and many have very low incomes, yet they still make substantial contributions to the wbts every month.

because they are firmly lead to believe that it is an organisation that is struggling for its financial survival.. following a recent visit from the c.o.

link

That is the really big question rolling rock and you can only speculate on the answer.

One thing is for sure. They have built for themselves a business empire with a trading system that will ensure that they will not only last forever but will continue to expand all of the time.

To what end, nobody knows and I doubt they even know themselves. Personally I do not think for one moment that the hierarchy believe in their own rhetoric regarding Armageddon and the End of the System. These are just tools for use in the trading system.

It will certainly be interesting for those of us still alive at the middle of this century.

link

2

The latest from Baghdad

by link in

this just in from baghdad.... .

latest report from hans blix and the unmovic team states that further to.

investigations of abu's general ironmongery store in baghdad, a. considerable supply of warfarin and mousetraps has been uncovered.. .

link

This just in from Baghdad...

Latest report from Hans Blix and the UNMOVIC team states that further to
investigations of Abu's General Ironmongery Store in Baghdad, a
considerable supply of warfarin and mousetraps has been uncovered.

Commenting on the find, President Bush has announced "This has completely
vindictificated our investerigations...it was only a matter of time before
we uncoverified these weapons of mouse destruction"

link

163

So, where DID the 1914 timeline go awry?

by Xander in

okay, i know that historical evidence is that jerusalem fell in 586/7 instead of 607 - as the wtbts would have.

however, that is not compelling enough to show a hypothetical jw.

they (generally) must not only be show that the opposition is correct, but that the wtbts is wrong.

link

HS

No person knows the exact date of the fall of Jerusalem though the secular weight of evidence as of todays date seems to indicate that it fell around the years BCE586/7. Until any weight of evidence exists to overturn this view, can you offer the readers of this Board good reason why they should alter the pattern of their lives to suit the interpretations of some researchers, such as WTS researchers who feel that not only is the conventional date incorrect but that the date that they have fallen upon indicates that we are living close to Har-Mageddon, the culmination of all things? Scholars rely on weight of evidence, not personal convenience, or Bible-code type games to draw conclusions

I have tried this out on a number of Witnesses in the past. They all come up with the same explanation. They go painstakingly through the Societies wrong interpretation of the Biblical chronology and tell you "because the Bible says so". You then get into their circular reasoning about how they are Gods organisation because they can interpret these things accurately and they can interpret these things accurately because they are Gods organisation.

You just cant odds it can you?

link

14

Male date rape warning!

by ISP in

police are warning all men who frequent clubs, partygoers and unsuspecting pub.

regulars to be alert.

and stay cautious when offered a drink from.

link

This almost happened to a friend of mine. I say almost because they were already in bed before he realised the nature of the Nightclub that "she" had picked him up in.

HOW EMBARRASSING!

link

26

Watch Tower Finances

by link in

would anyone like to comment on the following observations?.

the very large majority of the jws that i come into contact with on a regular basis are not wealthy and many have very low incomes, yet they still make substantial contributions to the wbts every month.

because they are firmly lead to believe that it is an organisation that is struggling for its financial survival.. following a recent visit from the c.o.

link

I would agree that if you lived in an affluent area then belonging to an affluent religion would be an attraction, but most of the Witnesses that I know had to sweat for every cent they gave to the Society. For them, belonging to a wealthy organisation would be obscene and not in line with their teachings regarding the Merchants and Babylon The Great.

Also this subject has the attraction that it cannot be seen as an attack on their religious beliefs.

(a) They can clearly see that they have knowingly been given false information by their leaders.

(b) They have been asked to go out and solicit donations on the basis of false information.

I know many Witnesses who would be horrified to think that they were soliciting funds and supporting a multi-million dollar world wide organisation that has financial investments at the level of those given in the above documents. I truly believe that this would be a serious issue for them.

link

(formatting)

Edited by - link on 1 February 2003 3:37:27

26

Watch Tower Finances

by link in

would anyone like to comment on the following observations?.

the very large majority of the jws that i come into contact with on a regular basis are not wealthy and many have very low incomes, yet they still make substantial contributions to the wbts every month.

because they are firmly lead to believe that it is an organisation that is struggling for its financial survival.. following a recent visit from the c.o.

link

Its obvious from all the responses that the information is out there somewhere.

The problem is that to make it meaningful it needs putting together in a way that the average JW (or anyone else for that matter) could understand. Whilst it remains in the accounting format its not going to mean a lot to anyone but an accountant.

Does anyone have any comments on what has been put up so far or any suggestions as to how the information could be made meaningful, or put in such a way that it could be presented quite simply?

link