to a very close relative, who said they will listen if i can mail them info.
basically i need to present the truth about the truth, but only things that can be verified either in society print, or in the case of the un, from the un itself, no opinions, just documents that can be checked, preferably old and new and on varying matters, inconsistencies, blatant changes in doctrine etc, with references.. .
it's always been so 'matter of fact' for me that it's all false, i fear that if i try to provide information with just my own mindset, i will miss a lot and might not provide the best info, i have tried searching on the site but there are so many posts i struggle to find even posts i remember seeing last month.. .
dh,
If your close relatives are anything like mine, they will be well aware that you cannot disprove a negative. I continually get these challenges and have to turn them round and tell them to prove things to me.
You could end up batting your head against a brick wall.
link
in the brief time that i've been reading jw-related postings and sites on the net, i've seen a lot of stuff regarding the jw leadership being all about the money with the implication that there is something unsavory about their acquisitiveness.. if that is true, what exactly do they want it for?
from what i've read, the gb seem to live reasonably well (better, in fact, than the average jw would expect, i think) but it hardly seems anything that would have earned them a spot on lifestyles of the rich and famous.
so, why would they be so concerned about amassing organizational wealth?
I wondered the same thing until the Company I worked for was taken over by an American Corporation. The amount of money they could amass was the only measurement of success that they were capable of recognising – there were no other criteria as far as they were concerned.
I believe that this applies just as much to the Society and the people who operate it as it does to American business in general.Being successfull is the be-all and end-all of the Societies existence and they use money to measure this.Failure will not be contemplated therefore it is vital to accumulate and hold on to as much money as possible.
link
Hi Cameron,
I have to agree, it does sound like a great book. Would you like to tell us something about the Author? I'm sure most people like to get this information before buying a book on-line as it helps to define which direction the material is comming from.
Thanks.
link
the idea of god is either a fact,like sand,or a fantasy,like santa.. the idea of god has guided or deluded more lives,changed more history,inspired more music and poetry and philosophy than anything else,real or imagined.it has made more of a difference to human life on this planet,both individually and collectively,than anything else ever has.. to see this clearly for yourself,just try this thought experiment:.
suppose no one in history had ever conceived the idea of god.now,rewrite history following that premise.the task daunts and staggers the imagination.
.from the earliest human remains----- religious funeral artifacts-----to the most recent wars in the mideast,religion----belief in a god or gods----has been the mainspring of the whole watch that is human history.. if the idea of god is a fantasy,a human invention,it is the greatest invention of all human history.. there are only two possibilities,"to be or not to be",that is the question.. blueblades
I think that it depends on if we are talking about the Christian God or a god.
I believe that everyone is born with an inner need for a belief in something that we could call supernatural or a meaning to life. How this need expresses itself is dependent upon our emotional make up. or personality. and our life experiences as we grow. For some, the need will become urgent and for others it will almost disappear – and we must not forget peer pressure in either direction.
Freddie, it is not necessarily true that most African tribes do not have some form of "religion" with a figurehead. As a young man, many years ago, I was a bit of an adventurer and spent some of those years exploring the more remote parts of East and Central Africa. I had some experiences that are perhaps beyond belief to most people in the developed world and one of these concerned a tribe of Africans who "worshipped" a troop of albino baboons. They might not have been genetically albino but they were white and had pink eyes, unlike any other baboons I had ever seen.
The point is that to that tribe these baboons represented some form of governing body with the dominant animal as a deity. So I think that in some way everyone, whatever their situation or status, is looking for what we call religion or the religious type experience. Neither is it connected in any way with logic or the intelligence of a person.
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i?m posting today to get some things out that i haven?t been able to share with anyone else.
because they don?t want to hear it.
i?m living in a world of jw?
95sf,
I was sitting at a table having lunch the other day with a bunch of dub relative
You can keep it up forever if you don’t do this. I have said that with my wife and me its give and take. She does not expect me to sit and listen to a bunch of dubs discussing weird doctrines, relative or not. Either she changes the subject as soon as she is able or she understand if I suddenly realise I have an urgent job to do elsewhere.
Once you have that understanding working its OK. We love each other and know that if we want a life together then there has to be some give and take, like I said.
link
i?m posting today to get some things out that i haven?t been able to share with anyone else.
because they don?t want to hear it.
i?m living in a world of jw?
TG,
I just couldn’t believe the number of bells your post rang for me. This is my situation precisely although I never got baptised because I found out a lot of things were not quite right before I got to the baptism stage.
Your wife attitude is exactly the same as mines and they even say the same things so I will tell you what I have found.
Firstly, because I did not get baptised, my wife is not so hard on me and makes a lot of allowances for me not being a Witness. Secondly I have found that by not joining in any conversation with her about religion, I can keep on safe ground. I never ever try and give her information (in a direct way) or change what she believes – only she can do that. When she brings up religious issues I just nod and say "yes" and "Mmmm", "that’s right" etc even if she is talking the most absolute rubbish – as happens from time to time.
So really it can only work if you are both wanting it to work. She has to give you some leeway as a former JW and you have to allow her to have her religion. The problem is that, like you say, you have to arrive at this situation without ever talking about it or discussing it in any way. That is real hard but if you think about it it can be done, you just have to feel your way there. Believe me this is not a "no hope" situation.
I think the most important thing I have learned is to bite my tongue even when I am bursting to tell her how wrong she is.
I hope things sort themselves out for you and if you would like to PM me at any time, please feel free.
link
a number of threads have been started recently on the call by someone known as anthony last, at his web site www.formulisn.org, to end organised religion.
his proposal to the united nations is dated 27 jan. most of the u.s.a. is several hours behind europe due to differences in time zones.. how is it then that j.w.s throughout europe were swapping the story via e-mail, under various extreme headings like "the time of the end", on 27 january.
i got one from the north of england and one from southern spain.
Thanks to everyone for your opinions.
I think that what I was trying to say is that there must be someone somewhere controlling what goes out into the JW e-mail network. I know that this network exists because I am constantly getting "experiences" and other forms of rubbish sent to me for my wife to read from all over the world.
Some of the senders do not remove the other addresses to which the messages are sent and this indicates to me that the overall size of this network is quite large.
Now, my point is how does an article from an almost unknown web site get into their e-mail system within hours of it appearing and is sent to me by the same people who have never even heard of the U.N. scandal.
It seems to me that (for obvious reasons) somebody is restricting what goes into the system if it is not good news and pushing what they feel is beneficial. These people in the e-mail network are not all independently deciding at precisely the same moment to do exactly the same thing – that is impossible.
I think that it is being orchestrated, I just can’t figure out how it is done.
Oh well, never mind!
link
a number of threads have been started recently on the call by someone known as anthony last, at his web site www.formulisn.org, to end organised religion.
his proposal to the united nations is dated 27 jan. most of the u.s.a. is several hours behind europe due to differences in time zones.. how is it then that j.w.s throughout europe were swapping the story via e-mail, under various extreme headings like "the time of the end", on 27 january.
i got one from the north of england and one from southern spain.
Kate,
Isn't it strange also that we did not get the same mass mailing when the Societies NGO status was revealed. It had much more intensive cover on the web than the formulism site and the people who mailed me the formulism info still don't know about the Societies U.N. involvement!
link
a number of threads have been started recently on the call by someone known as anthony last, at his web site www.formulisn.org, to end organised religion.
his proposal to the united nations is dated 27 jan. most of the u.s.a. is several hours behind europe due to differences in time zones.. how is it then that j.w.s throughout europe were swapping the story via e-mail, under various extreme headings like "the time of the end", on 27 january.
i got one from the north of england and one from southern spain.
gumby,
I agree, but how did this one (or even two or three) dubs manage to get the information all round Europe within 24 Hours? Had it taken a week or so I could understand it but you have to agree that this seems a little unusual to say the least.
link
a number of threads have been started recently on the call by someone known as anthony last, at his web site www.formulisn.org, to end organised religion.
his proposal to the united nations is dated 27 jan. most of the u.s.a. is several hours behind europe due to differences in time zones.. how is it then that j.w.s throughout europe were swapping the story via e-mail, under various extreme headings like "the time of the end", on 27 january.
i got one from the north of england and one from southern spain.
Thanks for the info Max. I hadn’t looked at the site today and missed the letter to J.W.’s
They really do pick some strange bedfellows.
But how did this chap Last manage to get the information into the J.W. e-mail chain so quickly? From some of the wording used I would guess that it was a British organisation and not from the U.S. This means that time difference would have no effect in Europe. But even so that was very rapid distribution even by Internet standards. Or is it possible they got an advanced copy? This would suggest that someone somewhere has a serious contact in the J.W. e-mail chain (or knows a man who has).
I’m still very suspicious.
link
