at the end of his final talk he said of the gb: they are telling the higher ups , "start getting ready we're not going to be around much longer!
" and we expect the angels to release the four winds any day now!
" my first thought was why are you building a corporate country club then?!
My son chatted with some JWs at a literature stand in London last weekend and he asked when the end of the world was coming acording to their religion.
They replied that it would be "very soon" but my son was not content with that and when he asked them to be more specific (e.g. in 1 month, or 1 year, 10 years, or longer?) one of the JWs stated that he was absolutely certain this world would be gone within the next 5 years at the very latest.
My son laughed incredulously and moved on.
do you check this site, daily?.
do you post very much?.
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I've never been a JW, never been in a Kingdom Hall, never studied the bible, none of my close family or large extended family are religious (they are and have alweays been atheist or not interested), BUT I read this site most days as it is one of the most interesting and thought provoking forums on the internet.
I post very infrequently as I don't have personal experience of the JW world, but I have learned a huge amount from coming here and I like to call myself an honorary apostate, as I have learned enough now to be able to effectively debate with JWs at the door and in the street and am currently exchanging emails and debating with a die hard JW I met when I was away on a trip.
I'm not addicted to the site and have a busy life, but it's a real pleasure to come here whenever I have time.
stopping and telling that woman to stand up and walk!
that would have been something to say "grazie" what happened with all the nice accounts from the bible?
but if could at least get some of the members from the gb to do this..... .
This topic interested me because I am currently in the process of debating with a Catholic Deacon and others on a local forum on the topic of blessings and faith healing.
The Church of England Vicar has been going around our village meeting people and blessing them and in some cases praying for healing or recovery from illness, accident and disability for people some of whom have not requested it. He even prayed for a 9 year old young girl in a wheelchair who has an incurable condition, and asked God to heal her. Her parents were disgusted as this has given her false hope. The Vicar has blessed businesses too, and I'm not sure on the ethics of that.
The actions of the Vicar have provoked a lot of irritation, annoyance and anger amongst the largely non-religious local community. The Christians who have commented on the thread are saying "What's the harm?", or "The vicar means well, just walk away if you don't want his blessing", etc and they don't understand how, for an atheist, being blessed is offensive. The Christians are also claiming atheists are attacking the vicar with hateful words when in fact no one has done anything more than comment politely respectfully on his role in the community.
The Vicar himself is not taking part in the discussion, but the local Catholic Deacon has come along and given his views. He had the experience of his Christian friends praying over him in hospital and the pain of his kidney stone was immediately lessened and the next day his kidney stone had disappeared.
The Deacon has also provided a link to a website
http://dailybuzzlive.com/mother-brings-baby-back-life-2-hrs-pronounced-dead/
where there is purported evidence of a miracle in Illinois in 2010 when a still born baby apparently came back to life an hour after deing declared dead. This 'miracle' is attributed to the fact the mother repeatedly called out the name of a Catholic Archbishop who prayed for the baby. The Archbishop himself had been dead since 1979 and had apparently interceeded from his place in Heaven. This is being considered a miracle and the Archbishop only needs one more miracle to be in the running for Sainthood. Hmmm.
I just wanted to thank you guys on JWN as a few years ago I would not have had the knowledge, skill or confidence to debate with the Deacon or anyone else on any topic, let alone religion, but I have learned a great deal from reading this forum.
I'm still learning, but so far, on the other local forum, it seems I have managed to run rings around the believers and they are now in a position where they have no answers, except to say that they think the discussion should come to an end as it is going in circles. In fact it isn't going in circles, it's just getting interesting, and has a lot further to go, but the believers (who mostly attend church just for social reasons), don't like being challenged about the roots of their faith and just want the discussion to go away.
You've all 'been there, done that' many times, but this is new for me and I am finding it interesting!
the more i learn about jw's the harder it is.
to sleep at night.
the wife hit the pillow and within 5 min.. she is snoring.
If you are the type like me that won’t take any medications unless it’s absolutely essential, and your best intentions to establish a bedtime routine and wind down during the evening without the internet are always thwarted, you might like to try my method of encouraging my mind to go to sleep. It has worked well for me for many years, doesn’t require training and doesn’t cost a penny/cent. All you need is your imagination.
The idea is actually not to try to clear your mind, but to displace negative and worrying thoughts with positive happy ones.
Once in bed, get comfortable and focus on a place where you are at your most serene and happy and where you feel valued, relaxed, secure, safe and free.
You might like to imagine the beach where you played as a child, a cycle route you enjoy, a boat trip you once took, a family holiday or picnic, a walk in a forest or the mountains. Maybe you would prefer to think about cooking a perfect meal for friends, a day in Disney World, or a party.
If you are not fortunate enough to have had happy experiences to draw upon, you will need to create your story with elements of fantasy…. being a rock star or champion athlete, re-designing your house or let lose in a shopping mall with an unlimited budget, driving a racing car, performing on stage, or whatever would make you feel great.
Then invent a narrative based on your happy place, which incorporates all the ingredients you would like to happen in your perfect day.
Being creative is good. If you enjoy language, decide on the exact words you would use if you wrote the story down.
Strictly avoid any negative emotions, contentious issues, work, politics, religion, JW matters, stressful situations, people that upset, anger or annoy you, and steer the story the way you want it to go towards a happy, successful and satisfying ending.
If your young days were carefree and blissful, you can choose to imagine yourself as a child in your narrative, or twist it to imagine being read the story by a parent or grandparent.
The first night you try this, it might keep you awake creating your story, but the next night, tell yourself the same story again, just tweaking a few details to improve it. Continue this for a few days until you know your story very well and don’t need to change it.
The essential trick is that if at any point you find your mind wandering back to everyday worries or problems, just turn over if it helps, and start again at the beginning of your happy story. If you find that your mind wanders at the same point each time, you need to adjust that part of your narrative to something more interesting and engaging.
If it works for you, you should find that you progressively fall asleep a little earlier in the story each night. The more you use it, the more familiar and safe the story becomes, the better it works.
It’s also great for helping settle a fretful child; get him to tell you what he would do if he was able to spend a whole day in a theme park - just himself and a few friends, or how he would spend a day on the beach. I am a Girl Guide leader and have successfully used this trick at summer camp over many years with homesick girls who can’t get to sleep. Never fails.
My own 'story' is based around designing my ideal garden and would probably be boring to many but it works for me. I tell myself how the sun is shining and the birds are singing. I stroll out of my country cottage, accompanied by my faithful old dog, (neither of which I have in real life). I linger for a while on the yorkstone patio where I have tree ferns and chusan palms in big terracotta pots. Leading off the patio, I walk through a pergola covered in purple clematis and fragrant pink roses which I pause to smell. The pergola leads to a pretty winding gravel path flanked by lavender bushes and I pause to look at all my favourite flowers and shrubs growing in weed-free beds. The flowers are covered with butterflies. At the end of the path is a beautiful antique stone urn containing a box ball surrounded by white alyssum. I turn left and stop to watch the goldfish swimming lazily in the pond amongst the water lilies. I enjoy the sound of the fountain splashing into the sunlit water. Then I go through the archway in the hedge to the garden seat where I sit for a while to watch the bees and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................... I'm asleep.
My 'story' most probably wouldn't work for you, especially if you have been a JW as it might remind you of 'paradise' (I was never a JW). But you are free to do whatever you choose, as long as it doesn’t remind you in any way of your daily life.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone tries this, how it goes for you.....
as an aside to the recent thread discussing what 'spirit' is, this article is about 18 months old, but may be of interest if you haven't seen it before.. the study (or at least this summary of it described on the mail online news website), doesn't define what exactly is meant by a 'spiritual' person, but i personally take it as a very broad term covering everything from new age hippies who feel they have a relationship with the energy of the universe or those who are striving to reach innner calm by meditating and living a simple life communing with nature, to beliefs in astrology, feng shui, and a host of other paranormal phenomena, plus many shades in between.
some 'spiritual' beliefs are obvioulsy just superstitions, but others are currently neither provable nor disprovable by science.
maybe it's open to debate, but i guess if a belief can be demonstrated as 100% true by science, it's not considered 'spiritual'.. one interesting point is that apparently unlike some surveys undertaken in the us, this one from the uk found "no clear relationship between religious belief and happiness".. hope this doesn't offend anyone who considers themselves spiritual, that's really not my intention; but at least it's not branding anyone as "mentally diseased"!.
As an aside to the recent thread discussing what 'spirit' is, this article is about 18 months old, but may be of interest if you haven't seen it before.
The study (or at least this summary of it described on the Mail Online news website), doesn't define what exactly is meant by a 'spiritual' person, but I personally take it as a very broad term covering everything from New Age hippies who feel they have a relationship with the energy of the universe or those who are striving to reach innner calm by meditating and living a simple life communing with nature, to beliefs in astrology, feng shui, and a host of other paranormal phenomena, plus many shades in between. Some 'spiritual' beliefs are obvioulsy just superstitions, but others are currently neither provable nor disprovable by science. Maybe it's open to debate, but I guess if a belief can be demonstrated as 100% true by science, it's not considered 'spiritual'.
One interesting point is that apparently unlike some surveys undertaken in the US, this one from the UK found "no clear relationship between religious belief and happiness".
Hope this doesn't offend anyone who considers themselves spiritual, that's really not my intention; but at least it's not branding anyone as "mentally diseased"!
Here is the article:-
Spiritual people are more likely to be mentally ill (but at least they think life has more meaning)
Being spiritual may give life deeper meaning, but it can also make you more susceptible to mental illness, new research suggests.
A study found that people professing to be spiritual, but not conventionally religious, were more likely to suffer from a host of mental challenges.
They suffered problems including abnormal eating conditions, drug abuse, anxiety disorder, phobias and neurosis.
They were also more likely than others to be taking medication for mental health problems.
Professor Michael King, from University College London, and his fellow researchers wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry:
'Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual.'
The study was based on a survey of 7,403 randomly selected men and women in England who were questioned about their spiritual and religious beliefs, and mental state.
Of the participants, 35 per cent described themselves as 'religious', meaning they attended a church, mosque, synagogue or temple.
The vast majority of this group were Christian.
A further 19 per cent claimed to have spiritual beliefs or experiences without following a specific religion, while 46 per cent were neither religious nor spiritual.
More than nine out of 10 were white British, with an average age of 46.
Of the different groups, spiritual people were 50 per cent more likely to have a generalised anxiety disorder and 72 per cent more likely to suffer from a phobia.
They also had a 77 per cent higher chance of being dependent on drugs and were 37 per cent more at risk of neurotic disorder.
Spirituality was also associated with a 40 per cent greater likelihood of receiving treatment with psychotropic drugs.
Individuals of religious faith and those with none experienced equal levels of mental problems, the study found.
But there were fewer problems with drugs or alcohol among the faithful.
Unlike some American studies, the new research found no clear relationship between religious belief and happiness.
One recent large internet study in the US reported that non-religious people with spiritual beliefs were emotionally less stable than other groups.
However, they made up only 2 per cent of the study sample.
The researchers wrote: 'We conclude that there is increasing evidence that people who profess spiritual beliefs in the absence of a religious framework are more vulnerable to mental disorder.
'The nature of this association needs greater examination in qualitative and in prospective quantitative research.'
the younger generation is hopefully learning more about the way life works and how it evolved here on earth.
encouraging to see these results.. .
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229670.600-losing-our-religion-your-guide-to-a-godless-future.html#.u2yx5a1dwkm .
Unless I missed it, the UK was not included in the interesting "religion in Decline" diagram above. However, the follwing statistics come from a recent poll by Yougov which shows the "love of the greater number" is definitely cooling off here!
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/04/23/voters-were-not-religious-britain-christian-countr/
…… only a minority, 37%, of British people “regard themselves as belonging to” a Christian religion. Half (50%) of the population, including around six in ten under-40s, don’t feel they belong to any religion at all.
Plus, the vast majority (77%) of British adults do not describe themselves as religious. That includes four in ten (40%) who say they are “not religious at all” and another 37% who say they are “not very religious”.
Even among over 60s, the group most likely to identify as religious, only 31% do so, including only a negligible 2% who say they are “very religious”.
The data support the .. claim that Britain is – today at least – a “largely non-religious society.”
Yet this is only half the picture. At the same time, 55% of the public agree …. that ‘Britain is a Christian country’. A third (33%) disagree.
58% also believe that Britain should be a Christian country.
I went to a wedding yesterday in a Methodist Church which I thought illustrated the place of religion in modern UK society quite well. Neither the Bride or Groom or their families are believers, they just like the traditional rituals, the familiar-from-childhood hymns and ambiance and architecture of the church building. The Minister's 'sermon' was based on a pagan story about the Greek gods Zeus and Hermes, but nobody batted an eyelid or noticed that Jesus didn't feature anywhere.
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got a cool job, surgery and emergency medicine in a nice holiday town, super happy :d. .
Aberystwyth in Wales, UK?
If so, it would be the Irish Sea in the photo.
i'm still in the matrix(the truth), but 'morpheus' and his team are valiantly working on a way to get me out.
in the meantime, everyday i am discovering so much about being a jw i never knew, like don't buy girl scout cookies, that i keep asking myself "what have i got myself into".. maat.
really lame for a first post, but i figure i should start some where.
I'm a Guide Leader (Guides are the UK equivalent of Girl Scouts), and although we don't sell cookies, we do take part in various other fund raising events.
A few years ago, I experienced JW disapproval of Girlguiding, which shocked me at the time.
My first post on this forum was to ask JWN members for advice on whether a young friend who was studying with the JWs would be allowed to continue her training to be a Brownie Leader if she joined the religion. (Brownies are younger Guides).
I was told by forum posters that there would definitely be a conflict for my friend between being a JW and doing weekly voluntary work with the Brownies.
However, when I told her about this, she was incredulous and confidently asked her Study Conductor to confirm it was not true. She came back to me triumphantly to say she had been told that if she wished, she could continue as a Brownie Leader but just had to avoid being involved with Easter crafts, Christmas celebrations, singing Happy Birthday, etc and should not make the traditional Guiding salute to the UK Flag. She was happy with this and didn't see any problem.
This was during the 'love bombing' phase. However sure enough, as JWN members predicted, after a short while, she was told she should consider how working with the Brownies was affecting her relationship with Jehovah. There was a lot of guilt and pressure until sadly and reluctantly she resigned from Guiding.
She ended up in misery and deep depression as she was being controlled more and more tightly. Long story short, eventually she was 'rescued' from the Watch Tower Org, and immediately and happily rejoined her Brownie Unit.
I had never been a JW and before this, had not known much about them. As an outsider, it showed me that the JWs were a harmful cult, rather than the slightly crazy but well-meaning group I had previously believed them to be.
So I guess that in the same way, in the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc where selling Girl Scout / Girlguide Cookies is common, a JW refusing to buy or eat one would give them 'bad' publicity in the eyes of worldly people .
Incidentally, in the UK, last year the 'Promise' that all Guiding members make was changed to take 'God' out of it completely, and Guiding is slowly heading towards becoming a completely secular organisation. But it wont make any difference to the JWs I guess.
in recent weeks the jw’s here in the uk have been setting up their new portable watchtower literature displays in my local town square on a saturday morning.
as they hadn’t knocked on my door for at least five years, and consequently feeling somewhat neglected, i thought that i would pay them a visit instead.. .
the first thing i needed to do was arrange my literature.
Myself and an exJW friend were in Camden (London) before Christmas and we saw a JW literature stand manned by three young people outside the station. At first my friend didn't want to approach them as he has moved on and left his JW life behind, but I have never been involved with JWs and was curious, and wanted to engage them.
So I asked in a friendly and inquisitive manner what their beliefs were. I can't easily debate on JW topics (although I have learnt a lot now) so after the standard reply I just said with a kind of amazed disbelief in my voice:
"So you ACTUALLY believe that the myths in the bible are true, like the story of Adam and Eve and the talking snake and the global flood and Noah's Ark?"
The fashionable and stylish girl and the man did not reply, but the other girl simply said "Yes". I noted that she had a very sheepish look on her face, and was uncomfortable saying it. I said I was amazed that they took it literally in spite of all the scientific evidence to the contrary.
I then left it to my friend to debate with them as he knows the bible as well as science. He was polite, but easily outgunned them at every point, leaving them with nowhere to go and many questions they couldn't answer and had never before even considered. It was fascinating to watch and I was quite amazed to see how easy it was for my friend to run rings around them and how uncomfortable they looked defending fairy tales in the 21st century in a busy public place. It was obviously a relief to them when we moved on, but I hope at least one of them would have been googling for answers that evening.
or should she abdicate for lack of action / leadership?.
I don't often join in here, but just wanted to say to Snare & Racket I thought that your post [#2327] was brilliant......you explained very lucidly how exciting, wonderful and precious the experience of being alive becomes when it is based on identifying what is real and true.
In my experience, most believers base their lives not on rationality but on what gives them emotional comfort. They think that showing respect to their god provides them with a depth of emotion not available to non believers. They honestly think that life without god would be grey, emotionless, empty and without hope, lacking the touch of magic that the supernatural offers. They are sorry for athiests and humanists who they perceive as missing out on the breath and depth of emotions they have.
But your post expressed with passion the fact that when you accept that there is probably no god and definitely not one that deserves respect, life becomes, to use your words, "a fantastic opportunity, an awe inducing experience that we should endeavour to value, every single tiny moment of because of how valuable it is."
