Posts by johnnyc

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

This is so very interesting, all your comments. I am not sitting here stating that the GB or WTBTS is perfect - far from. They are probably the largest publisher of bible literature on the planet - and have been for the last (nearly) 100 years. Of course there is going to be errors on the part of every section there. It is actually amazing there are so few errors to actually point out in relation to the quality of publishing they do. I find it interesting to note that many of you think the GB is sitting there thinking of ways to deceive JW's and ruin their lives, and you imagine that meetings take place which purposefully maneuver truths to place known falsehoods down in print. You ask for perfection from very imperfect men. If a GB member was caught committing incest with his family, you would plaster it all over the internet with - "see, they are very bad men". Lot, Abraham's brother, was a righteous man who did exactly that. Moses, Samson, David, Saul, Peter, Paul, etc etc ALL had major shortcomings and sinned all the time. When Jesus arrived on earth, the temple and its priestly leadership was all but apostate - yet Jesus came to admonish them to turn around - giving them proper authority until God made his move against them. The bible states that "judgment shall first occur in the house of God" - why would there need to be such judgment if everyone is so perfect? More importantly, there are many examples by which imperfection of God's channel still required obedience thereof - it does not let us off the hook for going our own way...

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

You know, it is tough to discuss something when I have to prove this simplest thing. isaacaustin: For you, check out Jonah 3:4 (Jo´nah started to enter into the city the walking distance of one day, and he kept proclaiming and saying: “Only forty days more, and Nin´e·veh will be overthrown.") From that exact moment Jonah proclaimed something that did not occur. Because of that, Jonah was "hot with anger" over the fact he pronounced something that did not occur. Also, what you are saying about the Apostles not "peaching" that the end would happen in their time is not correct. Paul spoke on many occasions "peaching" that the second coming was around the corner, and perhaps within those Christian's lifetime. He obviously said that he did not know for sure - but the WTBTS stated that same thing about 1975.

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

oompa: Your last example is in no way similar to what has happened at the WTBTS over certain dates. A more appropriate example may be: What if the British did not arrive when Paul Revere announced? Would you renounce him as a heretic - tar and feather him? Was he not an agent of the government, someone who should know? I want you to really try to place yourselves in the shoes of the GB, and imagine you thought the end of the world would occur in 1975. What do you do? You say that the WTBTS ruined many lives...? How? Jesus said "pick up your torture stake (aka cross) and follow me"? Whoever loses their life on his behalf, saves it. Also, what bad thing can happen if you are to suffer for Christ? Does not the promise Jesus said about providing all material substance needed apply? The problem with all these people who cry about their lives being ruined are not truly "throwing" their trust in God - they retain a worldly viewpoint of "material" possessions. God and Jesus made clear that you would lose everything for his name, and by doing so, you would gain everything later. Regardless of what you may think, there are a host of people who are still JW's who sold everything before 1975 - and who give District Convention experiences about how it was the best thing they ever did - even though they don't have a penny to their name. Who is following Christ - your friends who sit and apostatize over things lost in their lives - or the current JW giving everything of themselves (only thing left) to teach people about the bible and good news of God's kingdom...?

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

megs: can you send some links? I don't mind looking at anything, and I have yet to study what you are referring to.

11

What prompts one to become a Jehovah's Witness?

by Quirky1 in

i know there are many here that were born into the religion and there are those who have family that were or are involved and that usually sparks an interest.. what about those who become interested by their campaining?

what influenced others here to become a jehovah's witness?.

what influenced you?.

johnnyc

I was raised a JW, yet, upon personal study found that much of what JW teach is supported by first and second century Christian wrings - such as Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Ignatius. It is odd how the Catholic Church views them as their "Church Fathers", yet they do not believe many things stated by them in their extensive writings. Doing a study on the early church is very supportive of JW doctrine and beliefs.

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

Deputy Dog: The link you sent me has a major contradiction. It starts by saying that once the WT found out that Johannes Greber was into spiritualistic practices, they discontinued using his quote - yet then later states that they knew from the start. Why can't it be as simple as some at the WTBTS knew, and others did not. When they ALL realized the issue, they immediately stopped using his quotes???? Its like all you can do is think of the negative people - come on.

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

Anti-Christ: I did not compare Jesus with the WT. I said "Jesus Disciples". And I believe the examples are very similar, as Jonah himself was upset about being made to look foolish for he prophesied something that did not occur. If you don't like that example, make a comment on the example on the fact 1st, 2nd, and 3rd century Christians all thought the end would occur in their time - and peached such.

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

I guess people aren't getting my point. Lets start backward a bit. I think everyone will agree that the governing body members believed 1975 (for instance) was a date which could have seen the conclusion of this system. From a motive of pure greed of wanting to stay in their comfortable positions of power, why, oh why, would they promote a date which would make themselves look very foolish (not to mention the inevitable decline in WT membership)if they did not truly believe what they pronounced..? I think this is especially true since they used a date which was right around the corner, that they themselves would have to "clean up" if it did not occur - unlike picking a date many years from then. There was way more "downside" than "upside" if they were operating from a purely "power-hungry" position - as some have mentioned. Raymond Franz has stated that none of the GB members had bad motives while going through all this, and they all very much believed everything they announced. Perhaps they are wrong, but being wrong and deceitful are very different things. More importantly, to prove fraud, you would have to present evidence that the GB thought they were not correct about a date DURING the time they were promoting it - and chose to do so anyway. That is the true definition of fraud and deceit. Not what you here would like to claim it to be.

193

Deceptive or just wrong?

by johnnyc in

i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

johnnyc

insearchoftruth: What if Jonah were to have created a document by which he announced (as God's prophet) that Nineveh was to be destroyed? Yet that didn't happen. For that matter, what about the Apostles and disciples of Jesus time who taught the end would occur in THEIR generation? I can go all day with references to seemingly "failed" predictions. You ask, what would a JW think of reading those Awakes or WT's that suppose the end would occur in 1975. I say, what about any Christian reading the Christian Greek Scriptures to which it was clearly said the end would occur around that time? Paul encouraged Christians back then NOT TO GET married since the end was so close...