johnnyc

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Posts by johnnyc

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  8

  Class Action Slander/Libel Suit Against the WTS

  by Igot2bme in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am exploring a class action lawsuit against the wts at the moment.

  i have been in touch with other attorneys on this matter and at the moment i haven't found anyone to take the case just yet.

  i want to pursue a class action lawsuit against the wts.

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  johnnyc

  Don't bother. The constitution makes everything dealing with religious authority out-of-bounds. What they will say is that there is not a court which has jurisdiction over the WT, and this is true. You could only hold them account for a VERY specific thing they say against you. Even then, it would only amount to being able to go after the Elder or person who said it. Proof and testimony are near impossible, since there is very limited aspects you can compel the WT to even disclose or provide the proof you would need in a case.

  Your time and money will be wasted. Trust me, there are enough ex-jw attorneys who would make it their fight if one was possible.
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  9

  My conversations with a Muslim at work last month

  by jookbeard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was working last month with a guy of algerian dissent who had lived in london for many years, who turned out to be hard core in his islamic beliefs , needing to pray a certain amount of times a day, wanting to skive off work early each night to pray and took a 2 and a half hour lunch break one friday so he could find a mosque ffs!

  anyway we got talking about our belief system's ( i knew more about islam/the prophet/quran) then he did, but it turned out that he said he had offered me the light that muslims are supposed to give non believers, and if they reject the message then they are condemned to hell!

  i spoke about my agnostic/deist belief and how much his message compared similarly with that of fire and brimstone style of christianity, he claimed that the quran amalgamated many of the ancient beliefs of judaism/christianity/buddhism etc and were penned so as to give mankind the message from the final prophet mohammad who had received these revelations through an angel(all bullshit of course) i went on to speak about the many flaws found in the bible notably the impossibility of the flood , the contradictions of the creation, right down to the possible evidence that jesus christ may never have even existed!

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  johnnyc

  I think some people forget that a similar covenant was made concerning Ishmael and his seed as Isaac had - with the notable exception of the primary line for the messiah. Ismael’s mother (Hagar) was saved by an Angel to protect that covenant - and Jewish/Christian understanding thereof is very week. There is most certainly something there that unites all three groups under the same God.
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  Sorry to hear that OnTheWayOut. To a lesser extent I guess we may all be guilty of being at a point of not wanting to listen to anything but "truth" from the WT (some point in our lives). I have to say, nothing gets under my skin more though than when I am talking to someone like that and they keep referring to the WT beliefs as "truth". Its becomes like a noun designation for the WT and their teachings. As I told my mother: "the only way you can relate the term truth to the WT teachings is that there is no truth in what they say". For her that didnt go over well, but my other family members are really coming around I feel.
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <mce:style><!

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  johnnyc

  OnTheWayOut:

  Yeah, I did have one person mention that, but even they after reading it a couple times backed off that arguement. In response I pointed out that if it was really that simple, why did the WT change this in 1995 - right after they changed the whole generation meaning? If breaking it up was the intended reading, no change would have been required - and the timing shows that the policy shift was in full swing. There is no comma, and the reading flows with the understanding at the time. The sentence structure here really makes clear the one clear thought being conveyed.

  I agree that if a JW wants to reason themselves around something like this, they will. I've just had some very good success - and its probably the most direct point I have found yet - as you know getting cut off is the biggest issue. So many other points take a while to get through, and the gravity of stating what God's promise is makes people think a bit harder on this. What resonates with a reasonable JW is that they have heard the argument so many times the WT does not "speak" for Jehovah - therefore they are not a false prophet. Here, they clearly say this is the creator's promise. Tough to get around.
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  29

  Early Civilizations and Bible Chronology...Part 2

  by xelder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was away from my normal computer and so my two posts to start the first thread didn't show.. however, thanks to all who picked up the topic and commented shadesofgrey, sizemik, lars, designs, otwo, jwfacts.

  since i never commented on my own thread, i thought i should and thank everyone.. adam's claimed date of creation of c. 4000 bc was mentioned, however, the bible would have everyone coming from noah at c. 2650 bc.

  american civilizations are said to date prior to the usual biblical date of the flood.

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  johnnyc

  I think dating is the problem. There are various ways we have to date things that ALL require "estimating" baselines in the past. Per the flood story, there was a water canopy surrounding the earth. That alone would change the dating results by most methods if such a canopy existed.

  Although, I have never been a big fan of trying to matchup biblical timeframes with anything, since ALL the bible writers avoided getting too specific with dates. There must have been a reason.
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  elderelite :

  I agree that most JW's dont even know about this, but there were 3 more articles dealing with the fact it was now a conscience matter. Its one of the things they don't want to highlight so older JW's dont get all bent out of shape. However, I think it took something that once was a DFing event and made it a "counseling" event. Personally I see that as significant.
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  Well its really just speculation on my part...nothing more. I just cant see how "ranks" will be replenished when people can get access to this sort of information so quick. The JW population is so very old, and getting worst. Maybe it is different everywhere else, but it is now a rare thing in our area that someone raised a JW will continue to be one into adulthood. Out of all my friends I was one of the last who left.

  I think the rubber is meeting the road. It is just going to take 10-20 years, but I "think" real change will take place ... massive change. If you told people 10 years ago the bookstudy would be done away with, I think they would have a hard time agreeing. Will they go to meeting just on Sunday? .... personally I see massive change in the wind, and it will only get accelerated once the current GB is outnumbered with young replacements.
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  Sulla :

  I appreciate your viewpoint I am mistaken - and maybe time will show I am. However, I do believe very much what I am saying since the whole world is going through a time period of challenging oppressive groups and governments (ie Arab Spring). The internet age is bringing people together through information etc like never before. The internet will make the WT change everything, since you really cant get away with BS the same way you could when only the rich and powerful could produce information on a scale that could be read by the masses. Also, groups and governments are challenged with this information daily and instantly.

  This site, along with all the other sites are a good example of how information like this can be brought forward like never before. I am not saying that ONLY the WT will change - I am saying EVERYONE and EVERYTHING will change. It is going to be a lot tougher to survive in this world, and have followers, being a whack job organization. If the WT stays on course, their meeting will be the size of bookstudy groups (well used to be).
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  Wayward Son:

  In 1999 the WT made voting a matter for individuals to decide upon themselves. Here is the info.

  *** w99 11/1 p. 28 Questions From Readers *** What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah's Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah's Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21;
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  26

  GAME OVER argument

  by johnnyc in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  johnnyc

  Personally, I think there is going to be a real opportunity coming in the next few years to get this message out. After that, you will see the WT transition to more "main stream", and they will FOCUS on not ever again making statements that will come back on them like this. The only reason we still have certain statements recently is in their discussion of things previously said, or their attempt to change one of the "ticking time bombs".

  A JW in 20 years will look nothing like a JW of the 80's. Their survival as a group and organization will force changes, along with the death of key monarchs holding on to past dogma and tradition. Think of the changes with regards blood, higher education, family life, children, military service (alternative), voting, etc .... all in the last 15-20 years. Once the bolts start loosening, the wheels are soon to follow.

  Many of us will think this is good. The problem is that the organization should be abolished and not allowed to change into a moderate religious group. Regardless, that will not happen and the transformation will continue. Give it 100-200 years and JW's will be allowed to run for president.

  All I can really effect is my family and friends. I have to leave the WT up to God and his punishment to those who knew they were acting badly (or those who sat by and did nothing to stop it).