Deceptive or just wrong?

johnnyc

I have been virtually non-stop studying everything I can get my hands on with regards the WTBTS, and "apostate" literature and information. In all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical. However, I do find about 20% (if I have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning. Of that 20%, a good portion is based upon "failed prophecy" - 1879, 1914, 1925, 1975 etc. The problem with much of what I read is the conclusion which the information is trying to promote - namely, the WTBTS is deceptive or fraudulent in its claims. However, what does the WTBTS gain in promoting such dates as possible conclusions to this system, if they are known to be untruthful representations? After all, it is much more of an embarrassment when these dates come and go without event, and has had a much more negative effect on organization membership numbers....thereby working against what it would seemingly be trying to do - increase membership. If anyone has a legal mind here, as you well know, to prove fraud you must prove motive and improper gain in an action. Where does the WTBTS gain in a failed expectation? From what I can see, they loose memberships and are left way worse than if they never said anything at all. In fact, you could say that when they make such predictions, the motive could only be that they honestly believe such. Unlike Mormons (Joseph Smith etc), the WTBTS has never claimed to be a "prophet". They only claim that they try to interpret prophecy left by others in the bible. Therefore, these dates should not ever be viewed as "prophecy's unfulfilled" but rather "failed interpretation". There is a huge difference between those statements.

AuldSoul

If what they called "divinely revealed truth" later proves to have originated in the minds of mere men, then they can't later claim it was a simple mistake, johnnyc. Not according to the Bible, at least:

(YLT) Ezekiel 13:1-7

And there is a word of Jehovah unto me, saying, 'Son of man, prophesy concerning the prophets of Israel who are prophesying, and thou hast said to those prophesying from their own heart: Hear ye a word of Jehovah: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Woe unto the prophets who are foolish, Who are going after their own spirit, And they have seen nothing. As foxes in the wastes, Thy prophets, O Israel, have been. Ye have not gone up into breaches, Nor do ye make a fence for the house of Israel, To stand in battle in a day of Jehovah. They have seen vanity, and lying divination, Who are saying: An affirmation of Jehovah, And Jehovah hath not sent them, And they have hoped to establish a word. A vain vision have ye not seen, And a lying divination spoken, When ye say: An affirmation of Jehovah, And I have not spoken?

A divination is something hidden that is purportedly revealed through the cooperation of supernatural powers (in this case, God), johnnyc. In my opinion, whether they were intentional false prophets or accidental false prophets is completely irrelevant, false prophets rarely ever admit to being false prophets and NEVER convert into true prophets. God was not supporting them at the outset, He is not supporting them now, and He will never fix what He did not initially establish. For instance, according to the Bible the Mosaic Law Code was God's and that arrangement was fixed by God many times, but only because it started out right.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

leavingwt

Unlike Mormons (Joseph Smith etc), the WTBTS has never claimed to be a "prophet". They only claim that they try to interpret prophecy left by others in the bible. Therefore, these dates should not ever be viewed as "prophecy's unfulfilled" but rather "failed interpretation". There is a huge difference between those statements.

johnnyc:

I will submit to you that you haven't done ENOUGH reading of Apostate literature, if your comment above reflects your true feelings.

-LWT

Awakened at Gilead

*** w82 10/1 p. 27 pars. 8-9 Be as Men Who Are Facing Har–Magedon Unafraid ***
In behalf of such individuals who at heart seek God’s rule instead of man’s rule, the “prophet” whom Jehovah has raised up has been, not an individual man as in the case of Jeremiah, but a class. The members of this class are, like the prophet-priest Jeremiah, wholly dedicated to Jehovah God through Christ and, by the begettal of Jehovah’s holy spirit, they have been made part of “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession.” (1 Peter 2:9) At this late date there is a mere remnant of this “prophet” class yet on earth. The “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har–Magedon could not start before this composite “prophet” ends his work.
9 One thing is now certain: if the “prophet” class, the Jeremiah class, is facing Har–Magedon, it is also facing the fall of Babylon the Great.

*** w80 2/1 p. 26 par. 13 Serve the “King of the Nations” and Survive ***
Does all that ancient history have any relation to our 20th century? Yes! About two lunar months after the calamity upon King Zedekiah, his realm, the land of Judah, became totally desolated. There the “seven times” of the nations, “the times of the Gentiles,” began their run of 2,520 years, to end in 1914 C.E. (Dan. 4; Luke 21:24, Authorized Version) Today that which was foreshadowed by Jerusalem of King Zedekiah’s day is nearing its destruction, according to the judicial decision of Jehovah, the “King of the nations.” (Jer. 10:7) How fitting it is, then, that there should be on earth at this critical time a class of worshipers of Jehovah God who were prefigured by the prophet-priest Jeremiah! In the light of this we properly ask, Is there also on earth a class that was prefigured by the Ethiopian eunuch who befriended Jeremiah, namely, Ebed-melech the servant of King Zedekiah? Modern facts indicate that there is.

*** kj chap. 15 p. 292 par. 36 The Watchman Lives to Get the Report ***
36 None of us should want to be like these indecisive, unresponding ones! Better it is to know now, rather than too late, that there is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us, and to accept and act upon the Bible message, “not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13) Concerning the message faithfully delivered by the Ezekiel class Jehovah positively states that it “must come true.” He asseverates that those who wait undecided until it does “come true” “will also have to know that a prophet himself had proved to be in the midst of them.” (Ezekiel 33:33) Such belated knowledge, however, will not mean salvation for them, for it will find their hearts and their ways to be unchanged.

I rest my case. Just a sampling. Need I say more?

A@G

sir82

what does the WTBTS gain in promoting such dates as possible conclusions to this system, if they are known to be untruthful representations?

Where does the WTBTS gain in a failed expectation?

In a word, power. It is what all cults ("high control groups" if you prefer) lust after.

What does an abusive husband gain by pummeling his wife? Wouldn't it be better to treat her kindly? And why do these women so often stick with their men, even fighting against police intervention in thir domestic lives?

The men crave power and dominence, and the women suffer from low self-esteem and hunger for any kind of attention, even if it is abuse, from anyone.

The same type of situation exists in WT-land. There are millions and millions and millions of people who prefer to be dominated in life (even if subconsciously), and the WT (and of course many other organizations) happily fill the need.

Why make predictions that are almost certain to fail? It whips up the adherents into a frenzy for a few years, makes them even more dependent on "mama", and then even when the predictions fail, people can't let go.

Here is a pretty good write-up: http://www.freeminds.org/psych/propfail.htm

Witness 007

Whether they are "prophets" or just using bad reasoning this still means the are niether "faithful" or "discreet."

choosing life

It is quite fraudulent to tell generation after generation to put their lives on hold because the world, as we know it, is ending. People have been talked into giving up education, having children, planning for retirement, etc. because of their failed prophecies.

What they gained was power over people, monetary donations and an increase in membership because people were told they had little time to save themselves from destruction by God.

They are accountable for claiming to interpret the Bible for millions of people. They took away the right that each person has to make those decisions for themselves. Even when people choose to leave, they continue to harm them by interfering with normal family relationships.

They are actually worse than just false prophets because even when they are proven wrong, they blame their members and hold them hostage.

Deceptive or just wrong?

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