johnnyc

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Posts by johnnyc

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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

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  johnnyc

  isaacaustin: so then lets say a GB first got drunk...then, k?
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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

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  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  oompa: I guess you are right, I was responding to someone else. I'll read yours again and respond to your specific comments - sorry.
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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  shamus100: Perhaps I do deserve to be DF'd for being here and discussing these things. I started this journey probably as many of you did (I am not saying all, so no need to debate me on this), as I was having a judicial committee against me for a sin that I committed. I think something goes through your mind at that point when someone accuses you of wrong, and you want to find "dirt" on them - so to speak. In all honesty, at first I was taken back by what I read on the internet about the WT - including Franz's book. But it was his book that also got me thinking back towards the WT. In his book, he talks about how none of the people (including himself) should have been DF'd or had judicial meetings since evidence was either lacking, or in his words, they were on a fishing expedition for apostates. The problem with all that, is that he clearly states in his book that he, and the other associates of his, had those contrary conversations and thoughts before any of that started. Then, to back everything up, he and the other DF'd members (Dunlap etc) immediately turned and attacked the WTBTS intensely - basically confirming they were who the GB thought they were. The only real point that Franz had, was perhaps the way it was all handled (taking his word at face value)...but how can you fault that when Franz did what he did afterwards.
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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  johnnyc

  Deputy Dog: So do you believe that the members of the GB actually meet and discuss what lie they are going to promote or cover-up? If you all believe the WTBTS is lying, then it must come down to a point of people there at Brooklyn meeting to decide how best to accomplish such. Even your prince of apostates, Raymond Franz, said the WTBTS (including the GB) are sincere in their efforts, but Franz uses a catch phrase to describe his opinion on what is happening at the GB level - "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest—but the myth—persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." He claims they are unrealistic and myth based, but he does not accuse them of lying. Don't you think he would be one of the first whistle-blowers of the GB if they were having meetings to talk about how they can deceive their membership??? You all need to "get real" about what is, at the worst case, occurring at the GB. Mistakes and nothing more. Regardless of whether or not God uses them to channel information, the fact is they HONESTLY believe that he is. This tread was started to discuss if the GB errors, or is fraudulent. So far, NO ONE has presented proof of fraud. Admittedly, it is difficult to prove, but nothing less than information showing the GB knew one thing to be true, yet purposefully and intently sought to deceive others of an alternative reality. Something along the lines of a recording of one of their meetings, or personal memos indicating such. Otherwise, any claim that they are fraudulent is a conjecture or slanderous.
• 
  9

  blood transfusions among the ancients

  by truthsearcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  is there any evidence that blood transfusion was attempted in ancient history--ie ancient egypt, greece, rome?

  could it be that the bible does refer to these practices in the "abstain from blood" passages?.

  arming myself for my hlc meeting, any help or suggestions are appreciated.. ts.

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  johnnyc

  Whereas they may have tried, they could not have succeeded - an impossibility. The types of blood were not understood until the advent of biology technologies not introduced into mainstream science until the last century. ie, if you were to place AB type blood into someone needing A, they would die very quickly - probably quicker than the reason they needed blood to begin with. It causes Agglutination. Therefore it cannot have been a common practice used back then.
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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  Another point: I often talk to atheists who show me all sorts of (supposed) contradictions in the bible and what they claim to be inaccurate. Even God's own inspired word is subject to these sorts of attacks of "proof of un-authenticity" through error. Unless God himself comes and writes something down, there will always be these sorts of claims I suppose. Some, if not all of you, were at one time dedicated JWs who fully supported the GB and WTBTS. So that means you probably defended the GB's actions to someone out in service. You obviously feel your current thinking is correct, but I wonder if you ever have the slightness fondness for the WTBTS for teaching you certain things about the bible?? Is there any appreciation for any of what you have been taught?
• 
  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  bennyk: I was simply making the point that there are examples in the bible of God's channel not always acting correctly or doing the right thing - but in each example God still requires others to keep in line with their authority. In those cases however, it usually means a very bad punishment for the party in authority who makes that error.
• 
  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  oops - i meant quantity.
• 
  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  This is so very interesting, all your comments. I am not sitting here stating that the GB or WTBTS is perfect - far from. They are probably the largest publisher of bible literature on the planet - and have been for the last (nearly) 100 years. Of course there is going to be errors on the part of every section there. It is actually amazing there are so few errors to actually point out in relation to the quality of publishing they do. I find it interesting to note that many of you think the GB is sitting there thinking of ways to deceive JW's and ruin their lives, and you imagine that meetings take place which purposefully maneuver truths to place known falsehoods down in print. You ask for perfection from very imperfect men. If a GB member was caught committing incest with his family, you would plaster it all over the internet with - "see, they are very bad men". Lot, Abraham's brother, was a righteous man who did exactly that. Moses, Samson, David, Saul, Peter, Paul, etc etc ALL had major shortcomings and sinned all the time. When Jesus arrived on earth, the temple and its priestly leadership was all but apostate - yet Jesus came to admonish them to turn around - giving them proper authority until God made his move against them. The bible states that "judgment shall first occur in the house of God" - why would there need to be such judgment if everyone is so perfect? More importantly, there are many examples by which imperfection of God's channel still required obedience thereof - it does not let us off the hook for going our own way...
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  193

  Deceptive or just wrong?

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.

  in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.

  however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  johnnyc

  You know, it is tough to discuss something when I have to prove this simplest thing. isaacaustin: For you, check out Jonah 3:4 (Jo´nah started to enter into the city the walking distance of one day, and he kept proclaiming and saying: “Only forty days more, and Nin´e·veh will be overthrown.") From that exact moment Jonah proclaimed something that did not occur. Because of that, Jonah was "hot with anger" over the fact he pronounced something that did not occur. Also, what you are saying about the Apostles not "peaching" that the end would happen in their time is not correct. Paul spoke on many occasions "peaching" that the second coming was around the corner, and perhaps within those Christian's lifetime. He obviously said that he did not know for sure - but the WTBTS stated that same thing about 1975.